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Old 12-02-2012, 01:04 PM   #62
Anno_Domini
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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Default Re: A theory about an alternate TDKR with the Joker

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Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Crane is there because he's one man who worked loyally for the LOS in Gotham before. He's not an uncontrollable psychopath. He's a cool, calculating psycho who knows how to follow orders as was shown in Begins.
Sure he knows how to follow orders when he doesn't know the true intentions of the LoS. But once again, being a pawn once more isn't something they should've done again. You bring up the fact once that you didn't like the LoS being used again, so how do you feel about Crane essentially being a pawn once again such as his role in BB?

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Any better than what? You asked why Crane would be here again, I gave you an answer. He worked for the LOS before, the LOS was under new management, with a whole new scheme, and in control of Gotham.

What other reasons did you want to hear?
But you also asked if this was any better than in BB, but don't you think it's not any better since he's still a pawn without knowing the true intentions, even with "new management"?

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Nobody is forcing you to reply. If you feel this is disrupting the harmony in any way then the logical thing to do would be not to respond and keep it going.
Unless I become too tired, I feel it's best for my opinions to still be heard and you feel the same I presume.

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No dialogue supports it. But there's multiple quotes that say Batman's been gone for 8 years. Nolan himself said the 8 year gap is the retirement period for Batman.

It's so straight forward.
Alfred telling Bruce he hasn't been in the Batcave in a while, Batman telling Gordon he wasn't needed because they won. That supports my theory. And we've been through this already, so no need to get into this specific topic again, but if you think Maroni took control when Falcone was gone in Arkham for what you believe to only be a few days, then why couldn't someone have taken control over the mob after Maroni's exit which would keep Batman around until the Dent Act was created?

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Yes, these were the courts for the guilty and the corrupt of Gotham. They were not going to let any Joe blow have this task.
Why not? A simple sentencing of 'Exile or Death'. Someone with importance had to have that role of a predictable sentencing?

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Yes, that's what I'm saying. When Falcone was put into Arkham after going "crazy", the Falcone empire was left without a leader. Hence why Dent said with Falcone in Arkham someone had to step up to run the crime family.
So could it have been possible the same could have happened after Maroni died which would call for Batman to stick around until the Dent Act was created as I mentioned above?

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You can buy what you like. Gordon said the Narrows was lost at the end of Begins. That's where Arkham was. So what makes you think Falcone was even still in there anyway when the whole Narrows island was done for.
Where else would Falcone be? He was too messed in the head to have even tried to run off like the other Arkham inmates.

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I don't know how many times a fact so simple as Bane's plan never ever relying on man power from Blackgate to take over and run Gotham. If it did, I'd be agreeing with you. But the Dent lie was just an accidental bonus and just added more troops to Bane's already healthy ranks.

Pivotal doesn't come into it when it comes to the Blackgate inmates. They were an accidental unexpected bonus.
Pivotal only being that they were helping the LoS once they escaped. That's what I meant by using the word as pivotal as they build up the numbers for Bane's army, that's all. Plus I'm not even saying they aren't viewed as some bonus for Bane.

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Then your point is moot, because whether he was in it or not, he still would have been compared to Bane. If the villain was Mr. Freeze in TDK, it would have been him getting compared to Bane.

The outcome would have been the same in regards to comparisons. The Joker just happens to be a better and more popular villain for the majority.
Also saying the comparisons would've been added more to Joker even in his cameo as well as I'm sure Joker would have had another mental game of chase with Batman even in a cameo as I'm sure his cameo would have had something to do with Batman.

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Yes exactly. You are basically saying a came from him would eclipse all the new characters just because it's the Joker.

It sounds ridiculous.
Joker's already being over any other villains in this trilogy, so why wouldn't his cameo be more talked about than even the main villain?

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Fine. I don't understand your logic for that though.
It's fine if you don't. I'm not telling you to get my logic.

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Who do you consider greatest villains in a CBM?
Joker, Doc Ock, Fassbender's Magneto, General Zod, Loki, Bane after seeing TDKR. Maybe even Top Dollar from The Crow.

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Go to the Spidey forums and ask do they think Dafoe was a great villain. Then you'll see.
So look at biased views from people who go to the Spidey forums?

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Of course I would. But to say this buzz would have been the predominant buzz over the whole movie and all the new characters is a falsity.
Once again, let's just say we are in disagreement over this. I do feel that Joker would carry most of the buzz off of TDKR.

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That's not the point. Those characters are big popular fishes in their fan base pond. They didn't steal the limelight from everyone in the movies they had a cameo in.
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Norman in the Spider-Man sequels, Wolverine in First Class, Xavier in Wolverine etc.
Spider-Man 2 - Doc Ock was the best villain of Raimi's entire trilogy, and while seeing Norman Osborn appearing was very awesome indeed, it didn't overshadow the best villain of the trilogy.

Spider-Man 3 - I honestly don't think anyone can find anything praise worthy for the third film, but people have acknowledged Dafoe's cameo as being a highlight.

First Class - Were people really excited to see Wolverine once more especially after X-Men Origins: Wolverine?

Wolverine - It was nice in seeing Xavier, but the idea that it contradicts continuity would take away said excitement. I know it did with me.

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