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Old 12-03-2012, 01:00 PM   #68
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Default Re: A theory about an alternate TDKR with the Joker

Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Which he doesn't here either. So what's your problem?
The "problem" is that since he didn't, once again, it seemed like just using another plot we've seen already of Crane being just the pawn. If Nolan can't think of something else for Crane when he's deserving of something better, he shouldn't have been used the same way as was in BB.

But another destroy the city with a deadly device plot should be done again. Another Al Ghul pretending to be someone they're not should be done again. Another Cop chase of Batman again etc.


Crane's role was tiny, but those repetitive plots were major. If Crane's little cameo bothered you then by the logic of being repetitive you should have loathed those ones, too.
Ehh, I never said I enjoyed the idea of the LoS wanting to destroy Gotham City again, only that I liked the "false hope" idea that Bane wanted to use as part of his plan.

But of course someone would bring up all the things that happens again just because I didn't like one thing. Is it so bad to not like something; apparently you do but yet we can't harp on you? No offense, but it seems like when you or someone else that doesn't like TDKR makes their complaints, they get re-quoted and their posts are agreed upon, but one mention of me not liking Crane's cameo or thinking it's even necessary and it goes through the roof.

I feel it's repetitive just like the other things I mentioned above. But it makes sense in the context of the story. I didn't need to spoon fed how Crane was busted out either when I just saw Bane release 1000 inmates from a prison.
So you didn't need to be 'spoon fed' into how Crane, one person, was released out of Arkham? I think it's rather important in finding out how they were able to get only one person out of Arkham Asylum.

No it's not any better in terms of repeating something we've already seen. But TDKR is guilty of that in other much bigger areas than that.

Crane's role was a cameo. So tiny that it's practically insignificant if not for the fact that he's condemning people to death.
I've really already said my reasons above, so I won't repeat myself, lol.

Being in the Batcave doesn't mean he was Batman when he was. He was in the Batcave in this scene you mentioned. Was he Batman then? No.
Could he have been Batman? Yes. Could he have not? Yes. Both theories, really.

How does that support your theory?
Because if Maroni could take control of Falcone's mob in a matter of days, then someone could have easily done the same after Maroni's death and Batman would need to be around until the day the mobs could no longer have a stronghold over Gotham, i.e., the formation of the Dent Act.

Ok fine, but if you want further proof, go watch the character special features when you get your blu-ray copy. Nolan spells out Bruce's leg injury and need for a cane is from the fall with Harvey Dent at the end of TDK.
But even that, the injury would have to get worse and worse for it to be in the condition he's in eight years later. Bruce could still be able to do what he can until that moment, could he not?

Two ways to look at this;

1. Between Joker and Dent, the mob was severely crippled. Joker killed Gambol and the Chechen. Dent killed Maroni. Joker also took over the underworld. That would have taken some time to recover from.
Wouldn't it only take as much time as it was for the mobs to recover after Falcone was sent away?

2. Who says someone didn't step in for Maroni and they got nailed by the Dent Act?
Depends on how long you think it took for the Dent Act to be created and put into law.

Yes. Tailor made for Crane who loves fear. Sentencing terrified people to terrible fates.

"Sold to the man in the cold sweat".

He was loving their fear.
Ehh, I guess if you look at Crane being used because fear was a theme once again used in TDKR, but I feel that anyone could have done this. Crane can be thought of by being used on a thematic level.

Was the mob as severely damaged at the end of Begins as it was in TDK? Were several of it's key members murdered? Were 549 of them locked up? Did a 'freak' take over the underworld?
I would say yes, it was just as damaged. The "heads" were sent away or killed off and I doubt all 549 were low level guys that couldn't get their way out of jail time.

Where would he be? How about cured and in a prison cell thanks to Batman's antidote.
Then once again, I comment the fact that why would Dent mention Falcone's time being in Arkham is the reason Maroni took control of the mob. Did it happen THAT fast?

That's not pivotal. Do you know what pivotal means? It means essential/vital/critical.

The help of the Blackgate inmates was none of that.

That's good. Your choice of wording is just off.
They weren't anything like unsubstantial though because they did expand Bane's army.

What difference would it make? Comparisons would have happened no matter what.
Only saying the comparisons would have been even more if Joker had anything to do with Batman in TDKR, that's all.

Yes so?
Just saying why Joker would be compared even more. With more stuff to do in TDKR, that would be only more for Joker's favor. It would be as if Bane has no means by even being somewhat of a close threat to Joker.

For the simple fact he's not the main villain. Can you give me an example in ANY movie ever where a cameo character was talked about more than the main characters?

Any movie you like. Doesn't have to be confined to superhero ones.
What about Hannibal Lector being talked about more than the villain of Buffalo Bill?

That's my point right here. All of those are your own personal opinion. For instance McKellan's Magneto is more popular than Fassbender's. Lex Luthor certainly more than Zod.
But still, Joker WOULD be talked about showing up in another film as one of the greatest CBM villains, yes? I don't know why you even asked about my favorite villains.

How are they biased? Because they don't agree with you?
Spider-Man fans that would throw **** at any other CBMs. That would make them biased.

It didn't over shadow him because cameos never do.
But once again, we never had a scenario of the most popular villain in a specific series showing up in another film where they're not the main villain.

Lol, just shows how sad Spider-Man 3 is when there has to be a thread to bring up what is actually liked about the film, but needless to say, but I don't really get your point. No one really is bringing up any of the villains, only specific battles or the birth of either Sandman or Venom. I am guilty to even mention the latter two.

A highlight. Did it overshadow the discussions of the movie's characters? No.
Were there any discussions of any of the villains except their births or fight scenes? No.

Yes they were. One bad movie doesn't mean the characters are suddenly rubbish. Have you seen the excitement of seeing Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellan in the next X-Men movies? People didn't lose interest in them just because X-Men 3 was bad.
I am excited too, but I also thought X-Men 3 wasn't terribly bad. I enjoy it much more than Spider-Man 3, but Wolverine: Origins was indeed the most disliked X-Men film, and also my most disliked X-Men film.

How did it contradict continuity?
Xavier walking; a teen Emma Frost who can turn into diamonds, although not using telepathic powers, could very well be the Emma Frost we know even though we see an older one in X-Men: First Class.

Originally Posted by Ryan View Post
I was pulling for a Dark Victory or Arkham Asylum styled TDKR as well.
Something of Dark Victory? Yes, but we sorta gets hints from that even with Robin being introduced and Catwoman being used. Also, Catwoman heading to Italy anyone?

But an AA-styled TDKR was never going to happen though. It really wouldn't make sense with it being aligned in Nolan's series.

Originally Posted by JackWhite View Post
Who wouldn't have wanted to see this played out with Bale-Bats and Heath-Joker?

I don't know how it would've played out of Ledger was alive and if Joker shows up in TDKR, but I just don't think we'd be seeing Joker in Arkham, only out and about in Gotham.

Last edited by Anno_Domini; 12-03-2012 at 01:05 PM.
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