Thread: Kurse!
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:02 PM   #285
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Default Re: Kurse!

Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
Here's another thought about the Cube being the artifact that changes Algrim: maybe it's Algrim who changes *himself* with the Cube.

It's a fairly mundane solution, but one that's a lot cheaper for the studio bean-counters: instead of introducing (and casting) a whole 'nother character with godlike powers to create Kurse, and instead of letting the Cube fall into enemy hands yet again, why not just have Algrim try to take the Cube from Odin, and accidentally/intentionally wind up getting morphed into Super Darkelf?

There's that report of AAA having a scene with Odin and Frigga, and Frigga (allegedly) dying at some point; so maybe Algrim makes it to the Asgardian throne room, confronts Odin and kills Frigga and/or The Allfather, and takes the Cube (either for himself, or at the behest of Malekith, or even Thanos if he shows up after all). But the power is too great for him, and he winds up becoming a twisted Hulk-like monster.
true. I like it. Again, I just think Surtur because I'd expect surtur to be in the movie, and simply, the oppritunity is there. To have a villain create another villain. The oppritunity is there. If it wasn't based on the simonson run leading to the surtur saga, I would say the cube would do it. But with the feeling that surtur will be having a presence, I still think him changing algrim is a very strong way to display that presence.

Originally Posted by American Maid View Post
*That* is a very creative idea! I really like it! You're right, it keeps things simpler by having an object, rather than a new character, handle the development.

With the caveat that I am relatively ignorant about Odin's powers, it seems to me that this idea helps address another logistical problem: how do you keep incredibly powerful Odin from solving all the problems in 5 minutes? Maybe there's blowback from the cube when Algrim tries to activate it, leading to Odin being incapacitated or seriously limited for some stretch of the film. If this doesn't make sense for Odin's abilities, then nevermind.

We'd need another McGuffin, though, because when the Red Skull actually touched the Tesseract, he went to another dimension. Here the plot needs Algrim to stay in this dimension and become Kurse. So maybe he doesn't touch it directly (maybe it's still in the holder from the end of The Avengers?), only tries to manipulate it.

Another wrinkle I thought of is why Odin would have the thing out of his vault. But it seems like he could have brought it out due to the attack, if that's what's happening.

The only other question is the sequence of events such that Algrim can successfully take the Tesseract out of Odin's hands. Don't have an immediate answer on that, but I suppose it's possible.

Thanks for sharing the idea!
Algrim shouldn't be able to take anything out of Odin's hands. MCU or Comics, Odin is TOO far ahead of Algrim in order for that to happen.

the thing is though, we don't need another McGuffin. Well, in that scenario we would. But we don't need ANOTHER McGuffin. We got the cube, and potentially the gems and the IG, it's just too much. If algrim is to get his hands on the tesseract, I would think it would be due to Loki sneaking it out somehow, and leaving it somewhere, perhaps still trying to get it to Thanos to make up for his failure. However he gets stopped, and algrim stumbles upon it?

I just cant see algrim taking on odin, and taking the cube from him, or even taking it under his nose. that just cant happen lol

Originally Posted by elizah72 View Post
Possibly, but my next question would be if all someone has to do to turn into a "Kurse" type powerful being is use the Cube a certain way then why wouldn't Loki have done that to himself with all his knowledge of it, to make himself powerful enough to not only take over the Earth, defeat Thor and the Avengers, and at least be a strong challenge to Thanos if he were to come after him?
Many reasons. Maybe he didn't know how? Maybe he was afraid of what it would do? Maybe it was very complicated to tap into it correctly

Originally Posted by M-2 View Post
Mmm well in MCU they made it quite clear, that you shouldn't be touching the cube with your bare hand... We all seen what happened with Red Skull when he did it? So im just guessing that the Cube is very unpredictable when someone actually holds it.

So maybe Loki knew the cube can give you more power but he didn't want to risk it, because the cube might not respond as expected..
yes possibly

Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
Here's my theory on how the Cube works in the MCU. I *think* this is what Marvel Studios intended, because I find there to be too many coincidences otherwise. Check this out:

In the MCU, who have we seen activate the Cube, successfully or no, to at least some degree? Answers:

Red Skull
Arnim Zola
Selvig (when he's possessed by Loki)
Hawkeye (when he's possessed by Loki)
in theory, Thanos (since he tasked Loki with bringing it to him, and since it's always been iconically associated with the character, along with the Gauntlet)

And who *hasn't* been able to, or hasn't tried, to activate the Cube while it was in their possession?

An unnamed Viking king, who was entombed with the Cube in Norway (beginning of CATFA)
Howard Stark
Nick Fury
Thor (carries it in a case back to Asgard at the end of Avengers)
Selvig (when he *wasn't* possessed by Loki), and all the scientists at the JDEM lab at the start of Avengers
Odin, in theory: In CATFA, Red Skull hints that the Cube would be the "jewel in Odin's Treasury" --- so why doesn't Odin seem to use its power himself?

A quick glance at that list tells us what?
That only evil people can manipulate the Cube.

Ergo: the Tesseract is, itself, an evil object.

That would explain how/why Odin hasn't just used it to wish all the bad stuff away, and why Algrim would be able to activate it.
not too sure. This is clever, and obvious. I think it may be a little to obvious lol. Meaning I think it may be a coincidence. I think the tesseract is simply a complex artifact of imense power, that's it.

Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
meaning Loki's scepter which is powered by the tesseract can penetrate the shield because you can't fight your own energy...
That is exactly what he meant.

Originally Posted by American Maid View Post
Wait a minute--if Thor does not activate the Cube, how do they get back to Asgard? (Surely it's not that he depends on Loki to convey them there?) As I recall, they both turn a handle on the case and it's activated.

Originally Posted by metaphysician View Post
I think the functionality of the Tesseract is just something we don't yet fully understand. I doubt its a matter of moral character so much as knowledge supplemented by the physical capacity to handle its energies. I suspect, however, that even Asgardians do not take the Tesseract lightly.
Exactly exactl exactly!!! Not moral character. As I stated above, I think it is simply an artifact of imense energy and power. And it takes "ancient knowledge" of the item to understand how it works, and how to use its energies and powers effectively. The skull didnt know squat about it. He did, but not enough, to touched it, and was gone. Loki was "given" the knowledge, but he didn't learn about it himself. Thor seemed to know OF it. Thanos is probably the only one who knows it the best. I think it is a confusing artifact of imense energy.

I see it as similar to the infinity gems in the comics. Many characters have used the gems, power gem for thor, drax, etc, but only thanos posessed the knowledged to use them the best and tap into the gems power. I think it is like that. You need to understand how the tesseract works.

For everyone else, it's touching an electric fense without knowing its electric. Now, You may get told about an electric fense, meaning, if you touch the fense, it will shock you. You KNOW that. Loki was told about the tesseract. But unless you learn about the wiring, and how the fence works and such, you probably won't be able to get over that fence unless you know how it technically works, and how to shut it down

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