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Old 12-19-2012, 08:35 PM   #108
Omegabat
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 138
Default Re: The "Nolan's views on Batman villains" thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Llama_Shepherd View Post
Rises was hardly an adaptation of Knightfall, just like Begins was hardly an adaptation of The Man Who Falls and The Dark Knight was hardly an adaptation of The Long Halloween. They take cues from them and adapt situations, not the entirety of the story.



Slade could have filled that role.



Doomsday got his origin story in Hunter/Prey. In both of their "showcase" stories both villains show little depth, Doomsday obviously moreso since he cannot communicate.



I don't mean that Prometheus came before, I mean that Prometheus is better.



I originally typed out a big response concerning Riddler's sometimes seemingly fluid personality, and how it is the same for all characters. But you only really need to do one. Joker. Just look at Joker, he is new every story he is in.



Focusing on just broad characteristics makes every character seem the same. Those same attributes apply to Joker, as well as Professor Pyg, Penguin etc.



Bane copied his mask.



The '97 one? If so, I don't particularly care for it.



Every character has stupid stories, don't focus on the disjointed narrative, because that wouldn't make it into the film if it were a well told story. Focus on the broad points and situation. Hush could have been used as a substitute story and worked perfectly following The Dark Knight.



The fact that you in one post acknowledged the sublime story telling of Grant Morrison and piss poor story telling of Scott Snyder has made me not want to argue any further

True,but Slade doesn't have the dynamic or history with Batman(as compared to Bane) that is required,why not just have Toyman or Trickster replace Joker in TDK? if we go by that logic.

Vengeance of Bane came out before Knightfall,Doomsday got a partial origin story in Hunter Prey(after Death of Superman) and then after that in the Doomsday Annual.Basically Bane was a character in Knightfall,Doomsday was just a RAWR monster in Death of Superman.Another problem with Doomsday is his nonsensical power set,he just makes no sense at all.

Prometheus himself is arguably just a Wrath ripoff(motives,origin etc),and like Doomsday Prometheus's power is just plot devices that make no sense and rely on the stupidity of other characters.
I've seen many villains benefit from that but Doomsday and Prometheus that it to a whole new level.

I think the problem with the Riddler is that he hasn't had proper stories to his resume that Nolan could look at and go "WOW",just making him deadlier by imagination(or for the heck of it) would most certainly result in a Joker knockoff.

Joker is the best personification of those types of characters with so much story,dynamic,history etc.

Arguably Deathstroke copied Spider-man's mask if we just go by pattern.But it was never the intent of the writers/creators.

Again problem with Hush was that
Knightfall had already done the same and with much greater consequences/results.
Hush himself was and to this day remains a lousy character.
Riddler only appeared in like 2 panels before he was declared the mastermind of the plot at the climax(in a story that ran almost a year).You could interchange the Riddler with any generic character and the result remains the same,Knightfall had Bane's stamp on it unquestionably,Riddler cannot say the same for Hush.
Hush relies too much on supporting characters.

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