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Old 12-30-2012, 01:50 PM   #41
The Joker
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Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

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Originally Posted by TheBat812 View Post
I'm not sure how you can think no information that Joker wasn't going to be used is somehow proof that he might have been originally planned, when something Chris has said specifically is that he planned to use the LOS all along for thematic reasons.
Because Chris never said that. That's how I can think it. If he had then the link would have been posted here and this discussion wouldn't even be happening. Give me a link that shows me he said he always intended to bring them back even before Heath died.

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Sure, maybe Joker might have been involved had Heath been alive, but either way LOS was coming back.
Again show me the quote where Nolan said this.

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Nolan has stated many times that they had a basic outline for the trilogy ever since BB, but they didn't look into the specifics of the stories until they finished each film so they wouldn't hold anything back.
You know that's a crock of poop since Goyer said they originally intended to have Dent become scarred and turned into Two Face in the third movie and have Two Face as the main villain for the third movie.

Read;

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"The next one would have Batman enlisting the aid of Gordon and Dent in bringing down The Joker...but not killing him, which is a mistake they made in the first one," Batwriter David Goyer tells the latest issue of U.S. movie magazine PREMIERE. "In the third, the Joker would go on trial, scarring Dent in the process."
http://www.movieweb.com/news/david-g...batman-sequels

Joker was originally intended to be in both sequels, but with Two Face as the main villain in the third. I don't see any mention of the LOS do you?

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Joker's thematic purpose was done by the end of TDK.
No it wasn't, since his work was covered up by Batman and Gordon. His purpose was far from being done. Whereas the LOS tried and failed to destroy Gotham in BB. There was no loose plot threads from Batman Begins regarding them. Ra's was dead, and there was no mention of any LOS successors who could carry on his work. Whereas with TDK, the Joker's victory was covered up by a lie, and the Joker lived. His work was not done.

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His line at the end of TDK about them being destined to do this forever is more of a thematic idea of opposing forces than a statement that he'd appear in the sequel.
That's your personal interpretation of it. Meaning your opinion. Nothing more. David Goyer said after TDK came out regarding whether Joker would have been in another movie, and I quote "If Heath were still around, and there was to be a third movie, I think it would be a no brainer".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz6_vBAvLIA

I'll take his word over yours.

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Also, like BatLobster indicated, jealousy can certainly be used as a great motivation (it is, after all, a very human feeling that can drive one to obsession, something Nolan has a penchant for)
Batlobster used two examples of movies where the characters motivated by jealousy were not villains. Taking The Prestige as an example, since it's a Nolan movie, things didn't turn bad between Angier and Borden until Angier's wife is killed, and Angier blames Borden because he can't remember if he screwed up the knots on the ropes. It was more a tale of vengeance than jealousy. No great villain is motivated primarily by petty jealousy of someone. There's not a hint of jealousy from Bane towards Bruce.

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Both him and Talia seem to ooze resentment for Ra's having chosen Bruce as his heir only for him to betray them all. Which I can't really blame them for, it was pretty ****ed up (from their point of view).
There is nothing in TDKR that suggests either Talia or Bane are resentful to Ra's for choosing Bruce. Not a single thing. Talia was resentful against her father for excommunicating Bane. That's why she couldn't forgive him. That's it. Nothing to do with Bruce. Bruce only came into the equation for vengeance for killing her father. As for Bane, he never says a single thing that suggests he is resentful towards Bruce for being picked by Ra's to lead the LOS. Not one thing.

You're entitled to your opinion and all, but I think you're just making things up that the movie doesn't support. Nolan is anything but subtle when it comes to the villain's motives. If any of this jealousy stuff was true, it would have been stated as subtly as a sledgehammer to the kneecaps.

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Last edited by The Joker; 12-30-2012 at 11:00 PM.
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