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Old 01-14-2013, 06:16 AM   #122
Tequilla
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Default Re: Why did the League of Shadows want to destroy a peaceful city?

RustyCage i think it would be easier to just read my post a few pages ago , because i will repeat a lot of the same notions , but for the sake of the discussion

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Originally Posted by RustyCage View Post
But you still have to fill in Nolan's blanks to gather those stories beyond the surface, you're interpreting these stories with your imagination.
You're confusing interpretation with filling the blanks. If you think stories exist for mere plotting, then i don't see how you want to discuss anything.


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Originally Posted by RustyCage View Post
Which is fine, again, but I don't want us pretending that the movie fleshes something out that it doesn't.
Its not pretending. It's all there. You might not agree with it, its fine. Im not saying its canonical my view of the film (that is something only the writer and director can express) , but its certainly not deserved to be called fan-fiction.

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Originally Posted by RustyCage View Post
There may be little things here and there that could be interpreted as situational decadence, sure. That doesn't express that Gotham in it's entirety is outright corrupt, though. How on Earth do you gauge the ratio there? Based on a few crumbs? I'm sorry, it's just stretching.
I didnt said gotham is entirely corrupt. The decadence is something LOS identify in Gotham. That's crystal clear since Begins. Its still the same. Bruce doesn't necessarily agree with it. But the point of the topic was why they came back. Not if the city is beyond saving (which isnt , since Begins we see Gotham trying to lift by itself)

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Originally Posted by RustyCage View Post
I would have believed this to be the League's view if we were looking at Begins, but not Rises.
Same city , same conditions. In Rises they use a lie to clean the surface. To take joe chill's out of the streets. But the system that creates them is very much the same.

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Originally Posted by RustyCage View Post
So kids having trouble getting a job means a whole city is corrupt to the point that it needs to be obliterated?

Kind of a weak reasoning point, but let's collect it with your other suggestions.
You make an extreme suggestion that i said anything like that , but i didnt , much less i ever agree with the obliteration of the city. What i said was the youth unemployment is a huge signal of decadence , distortion , stratum's of society that have grown in a non civilized way. I chuckled the way you posed the question , kids having trouble with getting a job. I dont know where you're from , how old are you ,anything , but you certainly have noticed the huge crisis we are today. One of the , if not the biggest , challenge we face today is how to fight youth unemployment. A society without the capacity to absorb younger generations , doesn't exist . Its doomed. This is a problem western civilizations are starting to face , especially because of the major slow down in the industrialization by human labor.

But let me ask you something , why do you think the director inserted that scene in the movie ? Why did he alluded younger generations migrating to the sewers

" - Lot of guys been going down the tunnels when they age out.Say you can live down there. Say there’s work down there.

- Work? What kind of work are you gonna find in the sewers?

- More than you can find up here, I guess."

Why ? He thought it was neat alluding kids going to help terrorists ? He explicitly says "more than you can find up here". They are going because the have no place to go , except ther. Where they can find jobs. This trilogy , is all aboutlLegacy. About taking up the mantle. There isnt a bigger factor in that than young kids.

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Originally Posted by RustyCage View Post
Yeah, it is beyond that. It's the League infiltrating with the employment of a useful idiot. This example of corruption in Gotham IS the League's doing, so shouldn't they logically be committing ritualistic suicide or something?
No , they use the resources of a well positioned man to infiltrate their infrastructures.

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Originally Posted by RustyCage View Post
If we're going after Daggett specifically and ignoring the League's involvement (which wouldn't be honest, but), one greedy, sneaky man does not equal an entirely rotten, corrupt city beyond saving. Again, barely any ground.

What does that have to necessarily do with corruption?
Again, never said anything about entirely rotten. Nor i agree with it. Still the city suffers from the same problems Los saw in Begins (and in the past). Nolan can't detail all the city , and express all points of view. He choses different operators. One of them is Dagget. Infrastructures are one of the most bureaucratic operations you can have in state affairs . Him being able to do all this , his a great image of how Gotham is still very vulnerable.
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Originally Posted by RustyCage View Post

You're forgetting the context: They believe Batman killed Harvey Dent, their perceived savior. From the eyes of the cops, Batman is a murderous monster who has been at large for years.

And it's just Foley who calls that shot. One single cocky dude doesn't exactly make me assume the entire police force is crooked, just that they have a slight dick who doesn't know the truth about Batman (and why would he?) to take orders from.
Foley is a deputy commissioner , not a random cop. I've never made the assumption the entire police force is crooked. Just that it still exists.

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Originally Posted by RustyCage View Post

Oppositely, we have Blake and Gordon as beacons of good in the police, so if we're going to cherry pick single characters, the good side of the police have the edge over the 'bad' side, if you can really call Foley 'bad'.
Yes ...i dont understand what you're trying to say. I'm not cherry picking , its the director who chose to create that character. I'm simply trying to interpret the purpose. Why do you think he exists ? The simpleton Foley ?

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Originally Posted by RustyCage View Post

Apathy? No. Jealousy sparked by the coercion of Bane? Yes.

No , the city reacts in complete apathy. They never try to fight back. Accept everything from him.
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Originally Posted by RustyCage View Post

Yet another example of the League being responsible for the corruption they claim to be in Gotham to wipe clean.
The league is responsible for the corruption ? What ? They might be catalysts to show the corruption , but i cant even grasp your concept.

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Originally Posted by RustyCage View Post

It was a scam. They created the problem so that they could declare themselves the solution.
The ideology was false (at least the consequences it tried to achieve) no doubt. He wanted to poison their souls. But because he knew the social context , and took advantage of it. He used their own flaws against them. His plan is actually brilliant.


This was from other post of yours

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Originally Posted by RustyCage View Post
When you look at it that way, Lobster (can I call you that? lol), any city in the world can be 'bred' by the League to be deemed fit for a League annihilation.
Well Ra's states clearly in Begins that Gotham is a symbol of western civilaztion. So yes , off-course Gotham is not an island isolated of the world. Its a representation of something much bigger. The development of 21st century societies.



RustyCage what i didn't understand from your post was your view of those situations ? Charecters ? Contexts ? They aren't there ? They certainly are. You think they are mere plotting ? Situations to advance the narrative ? Well that's where we have to disagree , and i think cinema would be a very poor medium if everything would be thrown under that bus. Yes usually the genre is pure fluff , even Begins and TDK dont explore so much , but that's why i think Rises is completely unparalleled.

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