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Old 01-22-2013, 05:54 PM   #466
The Guard
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Default Re: List of Things Batman Returns got Right/Wrong

None of that could convict Schreck.
Nor does Batman say "Shut up, you're going to be convicted of (a specific crime with specific evidence)". It might well not get him convicted. But it would definitely get him investigated. It might well get him sent to jail during this process.

What proof is there Schreck told Penguin to do any of that? Who's going to testify he did? A dead Penguin? The city gave Oswald access to the birth records. He was looking for his family roots, or so he claimed. You can't connect Schreck to that kidnap plot because no evidence exists that he knew about it because he actually didn't, especially since his own son was on the list.

What has Max stealing the key from the monkey got to do with anything?
I don't know. I never said the film explored what evidence Batman had on Schreck's crimes. Only that the reason he says "Shut up you're going to jail" is fairly obvious. Personally, I find the lack of evidence against Schreck/the law's inability to deal with him because of his manipulative, shadowy tactics to be one of the key themes of the film.

The monkey key thing was a joke.

Max was Gotham's Santa Claus. Their version of Harvey Dent in terms of saintly do gooder image for the people.
Except that he actually wasn't. Bruce more or less knew it, Batman knew it, as did Selina.

This movie was very much about evidence to prove criminal behavior. The Penguin used incriminating evidence Max flushed in the sewers to blackmail him into helping him. The Penguin stole and used one of Batman's batarangs as evidence to frame him for the kidnap of the Ice Princess. Batman voice recorded the Penguin saying nasty things about Gotham's people and then played it in front of them to expose his true colors. Selina read secret files about Max's energy sucking power plant and that's why he tried to kill her.
There being evidence utilized in the movie doesn't mean that the movie itself was about using evidence to prove criminal behavior. You're missing the point. Its not a police/law procedural. Us not seeing the actual evidence Batman would need for Schreck to go to jail is largely irrelevant, because that is not the focus of the film. What is relevant is his comment in the context of the scene. Look at what the scene is about. Its about the difference between Batman and Catwoman in terms of their thoughts on the law and its application to those with power.

Batman can say anything he wants. Seeing as how he sounds angry and dismissive of Schreck, for all we know, he's angry about the situation and just wants Schreck to shut up and go to jail because he's tired of dealing with him.

So unless Batman magically unearthed some incriminating evidence in the time between Penguin crashing the party and the finale scene, I still say that line made no sense. Max is kidnapped and locked up by Penguin, and suddenly he's going to jail? No, doesn't make sense.
In context, the line makes perfect sense. Batman, who is fairly aware of Schreck's crimes, wants Schreck to go to jail. That's all the line inherently means. And keep in mind, Batman's statement is immediately QUESTIONED by Selina. It's not meant to be absolute, it's meant to be pored over. Catwoman doesn't think the law applies to people like them, or Bruce and Selina. Schreck's situation is indicative of this.

It would be one thing if Schreck actually WENT to jail, and the movie never showed any evidence, or indicated that there was evidence of his crimes. That might not make any sense, or would at least be a plot hole or incomplete version of events of sorts. That's not what happens, though. All we have is Batman saying "Shut up, you're going to jail", to a fellow who is a serious scumball. In context, the intent behind the line makes perfect sense, whether he has evidence, and whether the film has shown the evidence or not.

"Perception is the enemy of reason."


Last edited by The Guard; 01-22-2013 at 05:58 PM.
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