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Old 01-22-2013, 10:55 PM   #472
The Joker
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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Default Re: List of Things Batman Returns got Right/Wrong

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Originally Posted by The Guard View Post
No, but neither did I say he meant all that.

If we’re speculating, and you’re going to bring up points about the liklihood of him being convicted for his involvement, etc, I’m going to respond to them.
That's the difference, you're speculating, I'm not. You're the one trying to explain a sentence that has no explanation, visually or verbally, in the movie. You're making up what if situations for it and have nothing to back them up.

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Then I guess you have a really broad definition of “jail”. Even in 1992, “jail” didn’t mean “years in prison”. If someone tells me they're going to jail, I take it to mean "They are going to spend some time in jail", but I don't make assumptions about how long they'll be there.
I didn't say years. You said that. I said a considerable amount of time. As in longer than a little time in jail during an investigation.

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I don’t think its quite that simple. Selina flat out knew there was proof of his guilt, because she'd seen it.
So? Without proof it's hearsay. Her word against Schreck's.

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She also has the whole "He tried to murder me to cover it up" angle to work.
More hearsay. Where's her proof of an attempted murder, or illegal files?

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And Bruce, as the film shows toward the middle of it, commissioned a report about the power surplus that led him to question it, so he obviously has some idea that Schreck's power plant proposal is bogus as well.
The Mayor said the same thing at the meeting about the city having enough power to get into the middle of the next century.

So what?

Without any evidence he is planning to build an energy sucking power plant, they have nothing.

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Right. But this isn’t a movie that revolves about Batman gathering evidence to use against The Penguin. It’s a movie about Batman stopping the Penguin and dealing with Schreck, period. The Penguin’s use of the dirt he has to blackmail Schreck is more or less used as a gag, but I'd hardly call it a major plot point.
Yeah sure, Guard, the method of convincing Schreck to do as he says is not a major plot point. It's not as though Schreck is helping Cobblepot tout of the kindness of his heart is he. He has to play ball because Penguin has the goods on him. See that's how it works, Guard. Penguin could go and accuse Schreck of killing his partner and owning half the city's fire traps, but without proof he's talking total proof less hearsay.

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I wouldn’t call any of the instances of the use of evidence “major”, other than possibly Batman's use of Cobblepot's statements to set Gotham against him. Minor plot points, perhaps, part of larger plot elements certainly, but not major in themselves. They're certainly not anything close to the core of the film.
Ok, if you don't consider using the batarang to frame Batman for kidnapping, Selina being pushed out the window because she uncovered incriminating evidence minor, then you and I have a very different definition of what's important in a story. Without any of these evidence elements, there's no basis for these plot points.

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And if someone had an ounce of sense, if they wondered that, they'd probably assume that Batman has some sort of proof that Schreck is guilty of a crime, even if its just knowledge that he was proposing a bogus power plant based on the study Bruce did.
No, they wouldn't assume that. Why should they? It's nothing but hearsay, unless he's got his hands on the secret files.

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That's just it. It does make sense. Far as I can tell, you just don’t like that they didn’t show Batman gathering evidence against Schreck, and didn't explain which specific evidence was going to be used to charge him at the moment he was told he was going to jail. Which has nothing to do with whether Batman saying “Shut up, you’re going to jail” makes sense as a statement in itself.
No, I don't like there's no reference to why Max is going to jail, verbal or visual. I didn't have to see it. Just hear it. One sentence. Something.

You're just making up your own wild theories. You've got nothing. I at least have the fact that the movie doesn't support Batman's line in any way, shape or form. This is basically what some of the TDKR defenders were doing with some of the plot holes in that. Something I recall you also criticizing, Guard. Here you are doing it here.

The only plausible explanation given was by PonyBoy.

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I dunno, because that's not the dialogue the writers chose to use. Perhaps Batman doesn’t randomly go around telling people they’re going to jail unless the moment calls for it. Given the events of the film…he never really gets the chance to do so anyway. He asks Penguin what he’s after, Penguin is kind of cryptic about his aims, implies Batman won’t win, and then Catwoman shows up and Penguin escapes via umbrella.
I know what happens in the scene lol. The point is it's the same situation you're saying. Batman knows Penguin is rotten, he even found newspaper articles that said the Red Triangle Gang had an aquatic bird boy around the time kids were disappearing. More evidence than he has against Schreck.

So why doesn't he tell Pengy his number is up and he's going to jail? It's because like with Schreck, he had nothing on Pengy but just knowing he's a bad guy.

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And that "BS statement" is her questioning the idea of Batman taking Schreck to jail/the police working. The movie makes this pretty clear.
Ummm no because Catwoman could easily be put in jail for blowing up Schreck's store. It was all over the newspapers. Two security guards as witnesses that she was trashing Schreck's store, too. So why is she saying the law doesn't apply to her as well as Batman and Schreck?

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It’s not funny. The writers want you think about the concept of them as vigilantes, to consider whether the law should apply to them as well, or whether they have the right to take matters into their own hands.
Really. When is the morality of Batman's actions ever question or even raised in these movies? Gordon or even moralistic Alfred never ever say anything about Batman's murdering antics.

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