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Old 02-06-2013, 11:32 PM   #302
Tacit Ronin
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: New York
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Default Re: Batman Begins Best Origin Movie ever ?

"Swear to me" was the defining moment of Bale's Batman that officially surpassed any Keaton moment
Quite disagree. Keaton has far higher quantity and quality of iconic "that's Batman damn it!" moments than Cristian Bale. Especially the scene in Batman returns where he broods impatiently for the Batsignal to hit, and once it does, Bruce finally shows a spark of life as he gets ready to mow down baddies.

Nothing in Bale's movies come close to this. Nothing in Nolan's films scream Batman more.

as well as any moment from Downey in Iron Man.
Batman and Iron man are entirely different animals with "defining" moments being uniquely their own. However, I thought Iron man films (and Avengers) had more scenes that crystalised who Iron Man was than Bale's Batman.

Pepper was less interesting and less proactive than Rachel to the overall plot.
Pepper was actually an active participant in the third act and was crucial in defeating Obidiah Stane. Where was Rachel when Bats was beating the hell out of Ras? Oh right. She was on a rooftop.

She was also inherently more interesting that Rachel because she actually felt like a palpable love interest to this rich, famous genius who can get any peace of ass anytime he wants. You can actually see the qualities she has that would explain why Tony Stark would be interested in her. Whereas Rachel was there solely to manufacture a love interest. That was her purpose. Batman had fine and compelling origin stories without her. She wasn't integral to him as Pepper is to Stark. The obligated kiss scene at the end was even more impossibly manufactured than her character.

As far as Bruce's development goes, he had numerous guidances in various ways, including Alfred, Ras and Rachel.
And Pepper alone measures up to all of them? Pepper alone facilitates just as much growth as the lot of them together? What a character!

It wasn't just one person doing or saying one thing, it was a lot more layered and textured.
And it wasn't one person contributing to Tony's growth either. Rhodes, Stane and most importantly, Yensen, helped him (or hurt him in Stane's case) grow. I originally brought up Pepper only to compare her to Rachel.

Stane was a very generic, cliched and unmemorable villain.
And Iron Man was a formulaic superhero film. The difference maker is execution. Jeff Bridges, like the film itself, was able to rise past it's bland script to deliver a charming baddie.

He just had no impact as a main baddie.
He has as much impact as any origin movie villain did, save perhaps Lex Luthor.

It would be like revealing Skudd in Blade 2 to not only be a traitor, but also the mastermind behind the whole "Reaper strain" storyline.
I barely remember this film. Can't say anything here.

Ras was far more interesting and intimidating.
Agreed. But the other parts tip Iron Man over for me.

The GOP is a radical insurgency; it's not a political party -- Noam Chomsky.
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