View Single Post
Old 02-24-2013, 06:54 PM   #105
The Guard
Side-Kick
 
The Guard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 26,106
Default Re: "By The Goddess!": The Official Storm Discussion

Quote:
Those are so minor. Most of your points don't make her a leader, and some of them make her look like a bad one.
You didn’t ask me to list major points. You asked me to list where she was a leader.

I did.

I never said that she was portrayed as the best leader ever, or that it was the best example of a leader we’ve seen. I don’t believe that ANY of the portrayals in the X-Men franchise have been perfect.

I simply said that she was portrayed as a leader. Because people were saying she hadn’t been.

Quote:
1. She's a teacher. Just like all of the other X-men. The only difference in this movie is that only she and Wolverine are able to teach. And Wolverine dominates the danger room session.
It doesn’t matter. That is a position of leadership. It’s also a consistency of her character between three films, and it shows how her role evolves from classroom teacher to outright mentor of X-Men in battle.

Quote:
It doesn’t matter whether he dominates it. She is clearly starting to take on a leadership role. This is the beginning of that arc for her character.
Quote:
2. She fails because Wolverine undermines her "leadership."
No, she fails to make Wolverine listen to her at that point (and later, it is revealed that he has learned his lesson). But her simply making the attempt to be a leader, through displaying leadership qualities IS being a leader.

Quote:
3. Wolverine is ultimately justified at the end of the movie, like you point out. Storm didn't teach or lead Wolverine.
No, they’re BOTH justified at the end of the movie, because they learn to work together, and they learn from each other.

And yes, she did teach him, because at the end of the battle, he flat out says “We work as a team”, which were her words to him earlier in the film, and what she was trying to get him to understand. He has learned from her. He is also shown considering her words about “Are you ready to do what you need to do when the time comes”, and he obviously acts on that at the end of the movie when he kills Jean.

Quote:
4. And Beast has to shut her up due to her insensitivity. Does she even mention the cure again in the movie?
No, Beast doesn't "shut her up". He simply offers an opposing viewpoint, because the point of the scene is to present both sides of the issue. Just because she didn’t mention the cure again doesn’t mean she didn’t display leadership qualities in that scene.

Quote:
5. Of course Storm leads them through the mist... she controls the weather! Using her powers doesn't equate leadership.
You and I both know that she wouldn’t need to be in front of Logan in order to control the weather.

I’m not using the fact that she used her powers to explain her being a leader. I’m pointing out that leading him off the X-Jet and into the area, in itself, equates leadership. He’s following her. It’s subtle, but its there.

Quote:
6. Very, very minor.
So it’s minor. Its still there. He still listens to her. Its still a leadership quality displayed, and it is still the actions of a leader.

Quote:
7. Her Eulogy was out place considering how little Xavier and Storm interacted outside of X3. But when all the better developed characters are gone, just give the leftovers to storm.
At this point, it just sounds like you’re reaching to make her look like she’s not doing any leading.

Please tell me, how in the hell is Xavier’s only surviving/available original student who is still working directly with the X-Men giving the eulogy and message about carrying on to his students “out of place” in this film?

The reasons for her leadership are irrelevant. The fact that she’s acting like a leader is relevant. She’s clearly acting as a leader in this scene.

Sometimes people who weren’t top dog have to step up and lead when they’re called on, or when there aren’t other options. It’s a valid portrayal of leadership. Logan wasn’t giving the speech and talking about carrying on Xavier’s dream. Beast wasn’t, either.

Storm was.

Quote:
8. Best moment of leadership, however it's completely shallow. The movie never explores how it affects her to keep it open. Why was there such doom and gloom over the school closing if Storm can just say one sentence and the school stays open?
I would imagine the movie didn’t explore that because its not relevant to the overall plot. The franchise never really explored that about Xavier, either.

What do you mean why was there such doom and gloom? Because of the possibility of the school closing and Xavier’s dream ending...

You didn’t ask me for deep moments of leadership. There haven’t been a whole lot of truly “deep” moments in this franchise, or in most superhero movie franchises, frankly.

Quote:
9. Completely uncarring, unsympathetic, and unlikable... but yeah I guess it was leader-ish.
No, she’s not uncaring. She’s the one who realizes what Jean means to Logan and helps him to realize and face that, and the decision he’s going to have to make regardless.

Quote:
10. Grasping at straws. They don't show her preparing or motivating the students. Again, it's all Wolverine. He has the leader speech... she does absolutely squat and takes the backseat to Wolverine. And she comes across as cold again.
Grasping at what’s called “subtlety”. A teacher with her students, dressed for a real battle, instead of the faux battle she was in with them at the beginning of the film. It’s a small moment. It’s still a moment of leadership.

And yes, Wolverine has the “leader speech”. That’s because Wolverine is more suited to motivating them for battle, and coming from someone who initially thought Xavier’s dream was a joke, it’s more powerful coming from him to hear him say “Let’s fight for their dream”.

Also, Storm ALREADY SAID THAT during the eulogy, and also showed her desire to keep the dream going when she kept the school open, so by having Wolverine give the speech, the writers avoid redundancy by having a different character espouse Xavier's ideals instead of just one of them. And let’s not forget…Wolverine is a true warrior, he’s seen battle, etc. It makes sense for him to give the "harden yourselves for battle" speech there.

Storm is the emotional core of the team. Wolverine is the battle leader. That's what the movie presents, and that's what ends up happening.

Who cares if she comes across as cold? That’s been part of her character since X-MEN.

Quote:
11. Minor. She pilots the jet in X2 also. And they were all using their powers. It's Wolverine with the strategy, telling everyone to hold the line.
But she doesn’t, in X2, pilot the jet into battle.

She doesn’t make the first “attack” in a battle, or lead her whole team into battle.

The fact that they were all using their powers doesn’t matter when determing who shows leadership qualities. Storm is the first person onto the battlefield, and the first to strike against the enemy.

Quote:
12. Storm learns from Wolverine, but did Wolverine learn from Storm at all?
Yes. Because, as I’ve already pointed out, at the end of the battle, he realizes they have to work as a team, which is a concept he was rejecting at the beginning of the movie. It is the concept Storm was trying to get him to understand at several points during the film.

Quote:
13. The movie ends with her as headmistress, but it's not developed at all.
Uhhh…that’s because the movie was ending. You asked me to point out examples of leadership, not “well developed ongoing storylines about Storm’s leadership".

Quote:
As far as her personality goes, I'm not buying the "different aspects of her personality" bit.
Why?

Quote:
There isn't anything consistent between the three aspects.
Yes there very much is.

Quote:
She's scared and insecure, then she's angry, and I don't even know what she was in X3.
Yeah, that’s called “different emotions and thoughts”. People have those. They don't always think one way.

Quote:
Whereas someone like Cyclops, who had less screen time than her in the movies, is consistent and when he acts the way he does in X3 he's justified.
And when Storm changes the way she acts in each film, SHE’S justified as well. You’re so one-sided and biased about this that it’s not funny.

Pay attention to what they show. Throughout the franchise, she is depicted as an often quiet, somewhat angry person, quite capable of great power, who shows that she has a compassionate side to her, and also that she has some fear and anger over mutant bigotry. This is seen over the first two films, and elements of it are seen in the third movie as well.

Quote:
I have to agree with you. Storm has been the most lazily written character in the entire trilogy.
I disagree. She’s had some of the best, most relevant emotional character work of the trilogy and some of the more creative uses of power as well. She’s been underwritten, to be sure, particularly in X-MEN, but she has not been lazily written compared to the other ensemble characters.

Quote:
At alcatraz all logic points to Storm being the one giving orders but instead it is Logan. It just does my head in this franchises obsession over wolvie
No…actually it makes far more sense for Logan to give orders, since he has more experience in battle.

__________________
Writer and Lyricist of GOTHAM'S KNIGHT: THE BATMAN MUSICAL

And if I'm right
The future's looking bright
A symbol in the skies at night

Last edited by The Guard; 02-24-2013 at 07:08 PM.
The Guard is offline