Thread: Superman Lives!
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Old 02-28-2013, 02:51 AM   #228
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Default Re: Superman Lives!

Originally Posted by Dr. View Post
To be sure, Supes gets credit for longevity. But it’s a big stretch to say that those 75 years have been marked with solid, uninterrupted quality.
I didn't say that. I didn't claim that everything labeled "Superman" in 75 years has been solid quality. I said Superman wouldn't have been a success for decades, entertaining generations, if Superman failed to function as an entertaining character. Of course I'm referring to the vast amount of successful Superman material over the decades, not flops like the 1975 musical TV special or poor quality like the two movie serials from the late '40s.

A lot of the material is, frankly, crap
I certainly don't agree with that mentality, particularly about the Golden Age Superman material by Jerry Siegel, Fleischer Studios, the Bud Collyer radio show, the George Reeves stuff. If you consider that crap then that tells me you are not much of a Superman fan at all if you can't appreciate and enjoy the classic Superman material.

So then the question becomes, is a big budget movie necessarily beholden to any of that? Not really. Not any more than Nolan was beholden to the Batman TV series; not any more than Ridley Scott’s Robin Hood was beholden to Disney’s animated version (starring anthropomorphized animals).
That is a ridiculous comparison. Does the satirical Adam West TV show accurately depict the nocturnal vigilantism and brutality of Batman as conceived and created by Bill Finger and Bob Kane? Of course not. Does the Disney talking animal Robin Hood accurately depict the Robin Hood of folklore, literature and early film? Of course not. Does the George Reeves Superman TV series accurately represent Superman's personality, methods and basic formula as conceived and created and depicted by Jerry Siegel? Yes, it does. Was it made strictly to entertain children? No, it wasn't. No. Producer Robert Maxwell, in partnership with Bernard Luber, made the first season of the Adventures of Superman television series with the intention of getting an early-evening, prime-time schedule slot, aimed at adults and families. The first season of Adventures of Superman included many deaths in many of the episodes, for example...a man is shot in the back and killed in "The Stolen Costume" episode, and a man and a woman fall to their deaths after Superman leaves them on top of a cliff in that same episode, a woman is beaten in "Night of Terror" and Lois is punched in the face, a crippled old woman in a wheelchair is pushed down a flight of stairs where skeletal remains are in "The Evil Three," a dead dog is found in "The Deserted Village." It was not geared primarily toward children. George Reeves also wanted to gain an adult audience.

But they expect everything else to conform to general standards of “realism.”
Was The Avengers conforming to Christopher Nolan's attempts at grounded "realism"? No, not really, and it was a huge, huge success.

wisecracking during fisticuffs or smiling as bullets fly aren’t among those ways.
I disagree. Superman with a cocky sense of humor doesn't make him less entertaining or less adults or less believable as a character. There are people with that kind of cocky wisecracking personality in real life. He's smiling/smirking amusedly at criminals as they shoot him since the bullets harmlessly bounce off him.

A reminder, this thread is about Tim Burton's Superman Lives...

Half-man, half-bat.
Originally Posted by DaRkVeNgeanCe View Post
Manbat I adore you, those articles were amazing thanks!!!
Originally Posted by Octoberist View Post
Honesty, God bless you Man-Bat.
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Wow, brilliant post, man. Seriously, I couldn't possibly counter debate that. That post is a thing of beauty and a joy forever. You're obviously a true scholar of Batman lore
You've convinced me. Well played, sir. It's great to debate with someone who has the hard facts to back up what they say

Last edited by theMan-Bat; 02-28-2013 at 04:20 AM.
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