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Old 03-06-2013, 06:59 PM   #123
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Gotham
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Default Re: Anne Hathaway vs Michelle Pfeiffer

Originally Posted by The Guard View Post
If they didn't? Then they've basically missed half the basic point of the character.
The name alone does not do that in Catwoman's case.

That half being that she's not just a catburglar...she's someone with some of the metaphorical attributes of a cat. She's someone who likes and identifies with cats. In omitting THAT, they're further missing half the psychological makeup of Catwoman. That this is a woman damaged enough to A, emulate a "Batman" in the first place, and B, to adopt a new identity and to immerse herself in this sort of a self made mythology, and WHY she does that from a psychological and social standpoint.
You're implying that your preferred version of Catwoman is the only valid interpretation. I don't find these things necessary to get the core of the character across. She doesn't have to have be psychotic, have an affinity for cats, and she doesn't have to be inspired by Batman. Those are, frankly, superficialities; they're optional.

The quality of a character portrayal extends beyond basic gimmickry. The impression you're giving me is that they are the sole dictators of worth.

Do I appreciate these angles when they're done? Sure, I'm open to alternations and keeping things fresh. These elements can be pleasant, so long as the cheese is minimal -- and in some cases, a little cheese is tolerable.

But when the director expresses that he's going after something grounded and cheeseless, you should expect adherence to that.

The funny bit is, I wish he had adhered to it more.

Anyway - to say 'I don't prefer Nolan's approach' is one thing, but to say 'She wasn't Catwoman' is another.

I mean, it should have been obvious this was gonna be a different take. The question is: Are you open to that or not?

And yes, in the movie, I know she's not supposed to be those things. In the movie, she's only remotely "Catwoman" because she's a cat burglar and because we all know who she's supposed to be because we know the concept of Catwoman from previous Batman stories.
The character's behavior similarity does go deeper than 'she's a cat burglar'.

She has motivations, intentions, and personality/interactivity traits that evoke the character wonderfully. She's also in a mirrored (to the traditional version) predicament with her life - living conditions, rough past, has a female non-hero sidekick of sorts.

In my mind, Nolan only presented about a third of what makes Selina Kyle an interesting character. They missed the chance to connect her that much more to Batman, to really explore their parallells and differences and connection to a concept.
Oh certainly. They could have explored it more, and definitely missed the opportunity to do so, I agree. The film just had a bit too much on it's plate to.

I'm also not a die-hard defender of Rises, so don't mistake the argument to be of that nature.

The problem is really that the film is 'the end' of the story, or so we understand thus far. Their chemistry was the beginning of something well done, but needed to be expanded upon before they just up and ran away together. Too soon.

Not only that, but the focus on Blake taking over as Batman with Bruce retiring took away some time that could've been devoted to developing Catwoman more.

Maybe if Anne gets her way and does a Catwoman solo spin-off, Batman will be a supporting character and we'll get to see some fleshing out. Dunno how to make that canon with Nolan's films though. They'll have to untangle that one themselves. lol

The whole, "she happens to look vaguely catlike when her goggles are raised" thing? Yeah, that's no less "cutesy" and "cartoony" and convenient than calling her "Catwoman" because she wants to be associated as such.
The idea is that it's far more subtle than going out of her way to make a kitty costume. Not that I dislike kitty costumes necessarily, but Nolan was going for incidental.

Could she get the nickname from the media based on the incidental ears? That would be fine. But just 'she loves cats, she has a whip, so she's Catwoman' isn't very inspiring to me, comparatively.

At least Burton had her reborn by cats.. gnawing on her... Whether or not that's literal or symbolic is debatable - I prefer the latter, but I think Tim was tasteful in leaving it ambiguous. It made it a fun semi-fantasy movie.

And, obviously, beyond that, she's nuts - damaged. So there's at least a somewhat strong inspiration behind the theme so that you'd understand it.

Whereas Selina just seems to be wearing black leather and cat's ear goggles...because its fashionable, I guess.
Because she's a slinky spy that uses feminine wiles to get her an edge in a pinch. I don't think it's too difficult to stretch your imagination there.

Heck, as far as names go, in Bane's case, I'd bet that most people don't even know what "bane" means. It's not a very commonly used word. For all they know, that's just the character's name.
When I was a kid, people didn't say the word much then either, but I understood it enough when I watched Batman: The Animated Series.

"____ is the bane of my existence" has been a popular phrase for a while. That's probably how I knew.

I try not to underestimate anyone's intelligence - especially kids, as I said in another post earlier.

This is the problem as I see it. Those "cute gimmicks" do not have to be portrayed as only a gimmick, any more than Batman dressing as a bat should just be Batman arbitrarily dressing as a bat, with no deeper significance to his character and the mythology.
Well, we are in agreement there.

Those "gimmicks", as you call them. are the elements that form the core of the Batman mythology, and always have been. And they're some of the most unique things about the characters.
I still don't find it necessary for Catwoman. I also don't think it adds anything profound. In Burton's take, and in the Animated Series, it seems to just be some controlled and fun flamboyance. The books vary.

And Catwoman's nickname couldn't be a nickname based on her reputation?
I ended up concluding that it could, but that didn't appear to be the argument up until this point.

You were saying that the name defines her. I don't think it does.

No one's even saying it's neccessary for her to be called "Catwoman" in the film.
Weren't you? Why are we arguing?

I get the whole "I'm Batman" thing not working so well. And, like Batman, Scarecrow, etc, there's no reason she has to name herself "Catwoman", either.
Then we have more similar standards than I realized.

Is it? This is a woman who is essentially in costume in a more grounded world. I would imagine that in a world with "Batman", it wouldn't be too hard for the press to run with "Catwoman" if a woman dressed in a catlike motif appeared on the scene.
I doubted the likelihood, but I didn't say it was impossible. I also said I would be fine with it.

Speaking of which, I found this:

Why do we fall?

Last edited by RustyCage; 03-06-2013 at 07:27 PM.
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