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Old 03-15-2013, 05:25 PM   #186
The Joker
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Default Re: The Joker (The Dark Knight) vs. Bane (TDKR)

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
To me the complexity is in him being able to reconcile being exiled by Ra's with his devotion and loyalty to Talia, and I think there is a definite hint of him wanting to succeed where Ra's failed and go down in history as his superior. The love and devotion for Talia is straight forward, but yet it's another twisted notion that this guy who cherished the innocence of one child so much and was noble enough to die for her is also willing to kill 12 million people because of that same fierce loyalty and devotion. Maybe complex isn't even the right word, I just find it a bit more intriguing than what's offered in the comics. Maybe it just speaks to me never having been the biggest fan of Bane in the comics that I preferred a version that was so closely tied to the LOS. I do enjoy Bane in the comics don't get me wrong, I just don't feel he was ever capitalized to his full potential in that medium.
See this goes back to what I already said before; in what way is it a complexity if he's simply doing it for someone he loves? He was willing to die just protect her as a child in the pit. He had nothing to gain from doing that back then. It was just sheer devoted loyalty to a loved one. Now if he was willing to do that then why wouldn't he stick with her just because he was kicked out of the LOS? That's nothing by comparison.

This what I mean by watering down Bane. He's essentially doing it all out of love and devotion to someone else. I don't see that as complex, or more interesting.

I respect Chuck Dixon's vision for the character though, it definitely filled a void in Batman rogues' gallery. And if I'm not mistaken, I think he said he was very happy with the way Bane was used in TDKR.
Yes, he was:

I sorrta see what you mean, but to me that implies some sort of inferiority complex with Bane in the comics (which I suppose is arguably there). Who was he trying to prove it to? Himself? Batman? Everybody? If it's everybody, then that goes back to what I was saying about him being ego-centric. There are any number of ways Bane could prove his worth, but he specifically gravitates towards breaking Batman and taking over Gotham. Why? Because he had nightmares about a bat? It all just seems a bit shallow to me, but then again I'm sure that's how you feel about TDKR Bane so we're right back to square one, haha.
Bane wants to prove to himself his worth. His zeal to beat Batman and take over Gotham are drawn from his own personal demons and experiences. Yes, Bane had been haunted by nightmares of a demonic bat creature. A similar parallel to Bruce being haunted by the image of a bat and why he chose to be Batman. Bane heard all the tales of Gotham from his right hand man, Bird, who was a native of Gotham. Gotham fascinates Bane because, like Peña Dura, fear rules Gotham, but it is the fear of the Batman. Bane is convinced that Batman is the demonic bat which haunted his dreams since childhood. Therefore, Bane believes fate placed Batman on a collision course with him.

That to me is far more interesting and complex than doing it all out of love and loyalty to a woman.

I'm just saying, I think it's a pretty reasonable assumption that the guy did some "freelance" mercenary work during the time gap. Lindy Hemming even talked about how his wardrobe was designed around the idea that he had collected bits of it around the world. And his attire looks nothing like traditional LOS attire, it's way more militaristic.
Maybe he did. It's conjecture as it's never elaborated on. When Alfred researches Bane that's all he turns up on his mercenary activities. The African coup for Daggett. He can't be much of an infamous mercenary if that's all Alfred could find.

Well, yes, he didn't escape the pit. That's why Bruce is ultimately the better man. Still, I think Bane demonstrated some very extraordinary capabilities in the movie. Not even Ra's pulled off anything as audacious as that plane hijacking/abduction. The only other character in the story that I could picture doing something like that is Bruce himself...who kind of did with Lau in TDK.
Lets be honest, it's easy to take a city hostage when you've got a huge nuclear bomb and the trigger in your hand. Ra's was more subtle in his methods of doing things,, but he was still able to infiltrate every level of Gotham's infrastructure. He just did it in a more quiet way without needlessly attracting attention.

It's easy to do what Bane did when you get handed a ready made organization like the LOS with all their knowledge and resources. Imagine what the Joker could have done with them, given what he could already do on his own with just a few drums of gas and couple of bullets

I brought up Bruce's wealth because both he and Bane engage in a very high scale, tactical style of warfare compared to The Joker who was all about using the simplest tools to cause the most carnage. So my point was Bruce had his fortune, Bane had the LOS's resources (as well as W.E. Applied Sciences', which was a great strategic move). Both he and Bruce inherit something powerful and use it for their cause.
Oh yeah, I know what you meant by your analogy. I was just saying that Bane could have become something just as good if not better without needing the LOS as a crutch. Money shouldn't have been an obstacle for him.

The Joker financed his own operations by swiping 68 million in a simple bank heist. He probably had more than that, too, already since it seems he has a habit of theft and is obviously well known to Batman and Gordon: "Him again".

Once you have that kind of money you can buy what you like.

And also, Daggett did say he paid Bane a small fortune. So yeah, I think Bane could have just been a career mercenary and done just fine for himself- if he wanted to, like you said.
I didn't even think of that one. I'd forgotten Daggett said he'd paid him.

I know you had a few more points, but honestly I'm just gonna cut myself short here (if you can call this "short") because I feel kind of cumbersome rehashing a lot of the stuff I had been saying months ago.
Ditto. But as always it's been a pleasure.

"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

- The Joker

Last edited by The Joker; 03-15-2013 at 05:29 PM.
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