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Old 03-21-2013, 03:54 AM   #498
OutRiddled
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 507
Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
So basically you're talking about empty visuals, and not the tone and content of the movie.

I should have guessed.
I was going to mention the themes but I got tongue-tied. No, Nolan's themes aren't that dark. Dark for a PG-13 movie, maybe. The tone was not striving for darkness. About as dark as Speed, or any other mainstream action/crime thriller. Really, what was so dark? That Joker was terrorising the city? Been done in countless movies. Batman's girlfriend dieing? Was hardly dark at all, in fact I cheered when she died. The movie wasn't serious. It may have been a slight reflection of current events like terrorism and The Patriot Act, but even that is pretty much glossed over.

You want to see dark in tone, I suggest go watch The Crow (1994).



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You're not even trying to construct intelligent responses. The copycat Batman was supposed to be an idiot. He was trying to copy Batman wearing some cheap costume. The terror was raw in that scene with Joker sadistically terrorizing him "LOOK AT ME!!!!", and the way that hand held camera he was using moved and sounded only added to it's authenticity like you were watching a real sick video tape.
And how is that so different to Joker terrorising Vicki Vale in her apartment? Or Joker talking to a burnt out corpse? In fact, I find those scenes way creepier.



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You must be joking. A few little white burns on her face? That was tame. The sight of the mobile phone sewn into the Joker thug's stomach was more disturbing than that lol.
But that was all part of Joker's plan to escape. Him scarring Alicia was just a random thing he did for kicks.

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Lets see:

- Grissom
- The two mob guys
- Two models
- TV newscaster
- Six reported deaths on the news (then Batman foils his smilex scheme)
- A few people at the parade (can't have been many because they were all still swarming around his float after Batman took the balloons away, and you don't see any corpses in the street)
- Bob
Plus:

-Eckhardt
-the people in the museum
-Joker's test subject "I get a grin, again and again.."
-Alicia

I'm not sure because it's hard to tally up all the numbers if you want to consider both onscreen and offscreen kills.



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Yeah, I caught that one, too. Disfiguring girls faces and making them wear masks after was never Joker's thing.
Neither was wearing facepaint, sporting facial scars and killing people with knives.

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Originally Posted by milost View Post
The dark and creepy thing from Nicholson, for me, was the post-surgery scene and his overall look in certain situations (from the blood smeared paper and whooping aftermath at Grissoms to the mob meeting for example, he looks down right terrifying and sinister with that flesh make up and brimmed hat). The burnt corpse chat is also pretty disturbing as well. Imagine how that must smell and yet he's sticking his face up the charred skull talking to it.


With Ledger, it's got to be the Brian Douglass video, without a doubt. That's pretty creepy as well, especially when it cuts away from the Joker and Douglass and you just hear the shrills in the background. I can just imagine at that point that the Joker is sticking the knife in Douglass' cheeks and going to work on him. I also quite like that shot of him approaching Lau's cell.



After those two examples though, I can't really say Nicholson or Ledger are "OH MY GOD, SO TERRIFYING". They both have this charisma and charm that the Joker SHOULD have that you can't help but love. You should hate these guys, they're the villains, but I for me personally, I can't say I do. I can't really explain it but that attitude is everything. Some of the stuff both of them do should be disturbing, you should be afraid of a deranged, psychotic clown that either wants to give you a disfiguring permanent grin with their toxins or a blade to the mouth. But it's their enthusiasm, humor, lines and glee that balance it out. It sounds like you're saying Ledger was too dark Outriddled, but I think he had more moments of "fun" and "glee" to be honest. The hospital, the interrogation, in the truck. How about the party and eating shrimp? C'mon man! He wasn't all slice, slice, serious creepy.

At first I thought Ledger was going to be "too much" when I read that description that he'd "pick at his own wounds and never take off his rotting make up during the course of the film", but he turned out just fine. I mean, come on, it's not like he's the Brian Azzarello Joker where he's skinning people, raping women and shooting people through their neck.


As for Nicholson. he had the right balance as well, just for a different type of Joker from a different time. We were never going to get something as extreme as Dark Knight Returns or the Killing Joker in a Batman film in the 80s with a PG-13 film. In fact, I'd go as far as saying not even the Ledger Joker has gone that far. They were both the right choice for their respective times and films. Between the two of them, I can't really think of much else anyone would ask for.




Then when it comes to the "kill counts", I'd say both of them were pretty much even. With Joker's list, there's also the poor guy in the Joker's commercial that's dead from smylex (and most likely the gagged hostage later on if we assume the Joker didn't let him go), the other 13 deaths that are mentioned and all those inncoent people in the museum. That's not even counting who he kills as Jack Napier, like Eckhart and Thomas and Martha Wayne. Hell, if we're going to count the deaths of the people Ledger killed inadvertently (with his thugs help), there's also the cops and mafia that get mowed down outside the courthouse.






Between the two of them, I'd say there was PLENTY of killings to make them mass murdering clowns. They certainly weren't the 60s Joker whose worst crime was probably turning UN ambassadors into colored dust.
Ledger's Joker isn't that dark to me. Yeah, we see him use knives, but it's all offscreen. And there's never any blood.

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