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Old 03-21-2013, 12:11 PM   #502
The Joker
The Clown Prince of Crime
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Arkham Asylum
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

Originally Posted by Brain Damage View Post
HA! Thank you.

Originally Posted by OutRiddled View Post
I was going to mention the themes but I got tongue-tied.
Tongue tied? Burton's themes aren't complex at all.

No, Nolan's themes aren't that dark. Dark for a PG-13 movie, maybe. The tone was not striving for darkness. About as dark as Speed, or any other mainstream action/crime thriller. Really, what was so dark? That Joker was terrorising the city? Been done in countless movies. Batman's girlfriend dieing? Was hardly dark at all, in fact I cheered when she died. The movie wasn't serious.
If you don't consider any of that dark and serious then you obviously have no idea what dark and serious is. Watching someone get blown up mid sentence, corpses slamming against a window, watching a man scream in pain as half his face is on fire etc. This is dark stuff. The Dark Knight even got some complaints for being too dark:

You want to see dark in tone, I suggest go watch The Crow (1994).
That's certainly darker than Burton's movie I'll give you that.

And how is that so different to Joker terrorising Vicki Vale in her apartment? Or Joker talking to a burnt out corpse? In fact, I find those scenes way creepier.
Because both of those scenes were comical. What did he do in Vicki's apartment that was so scary to her? ***** about her running off with Batman in the middle of their date lol?

As for the talking to the corpse scene, the "corpse" looked hilarious, like one of those dummies that jump out at you on carnival spookhouse rides lol.

But that was all part of Joker's plan to escape.

Him scarring Alicia was just a random thing he did for kicks.
No, he was because he thought he was an artist. "I'm no Picasso but do you like it?"


He wasn't the Joker there.

-the people in the museum
That was knockout gas. Even the script says Vicki was the only one left conscious in the museum.

-Joker's test subject "I get a grin, again and again.."
Right on that one.

She killed herself.

I'm not sure because it's hard to tally up all the numbers if you want to consider both onscreen and offscreen kills.
You can only tally the kills we see or hear about. I mean do you want me to add the double homicide Gordon mentioned in relation to Joker's antics at the end of Batman Begins, and god knows how many more homicides he committed in the time frame between BB and TDK?

Neither was wearing facepaint, sporting facial scars and killing people with knives.
Semantics. He was sporting a clown image as the Joker does, and leaving victims with smiles as he does.

Disfiguring women and making them wear masks is something he never does. That's just a rip off of another Batman villain, like killing Bruce's parents was a rip off of Joe Chill lol.

Originally Posted by TruerToTheCore View Post
Well, I guess this is quite subjective and I don't agree with that.
Your agreement is not necessary

I guess this is different, too. It seems to me that Ledger's Joker is simply a disturbed guy who feels bad deep inside and wants to fix this by trying to prove something. Nicholson's Jack Napier starts out as an insecure guy who is then transformed into someone who doesn't care anymore.
You're kidding. Nicholson's Joker was the most insecure of all.

"Batman? BATMAN? Can somebody tell me what kind of a world we live in where man dressed up as a BAT gets all of my press?"

"We were having dinner. I was a man doing well with a beautiful woman. Without so much as an apology you RAN OFF with that sideshow phony"

"I have given a name to my pain and it is Batman"


In fact his smilex ploy looked like a sad attempt to get more attention than Batman. He was like an angry insecure kid competing with his brother for mommy's attention. I won't even get into his sad attempts to try and woo Vicki lol. Ledger's Joker was arrogant and cock sure of himself all through TDK. Never once does he get upset and throw a tantrum like Nicholson's Joker did. The ONLY time you ever see a glimmer of defeat on his face and see him annoyed is when the ferries don't blow each other up. Even then he gets the last laugh by telling Batman what he did to Dent.

(I never had a problem with Nicholson's Joker being a criminal before. The Red Hood was a criminal and even in the first Joker story he's taking revenge on a cop who brought him into jail so I guess it makes sense)
Neither did I.

Within the 80s context I think "The Killing Joke" was pretty much out-of-character for the Joker. I never understood why he is suddenly out there, getting melancholic and trying to prove that he isn't that bad.
It's not that he was trying to prove that he isn't that bad. He knows exactly what he is. He wanted to prove it's easy to turn anyone as good and as sane into what he is. He chose Gordon to prove that.

It's probably his most infamous and popular story, too.

Well, probably proving a point to make himself feel better. At least what it seems like to me. We don't know.
In between taking over the Gotham underworld to bring Gotham what he called a better class of criminal, and ensuring Batman is kept around for his personal amusement.

I guess there are a few more kills to Nicholson, depends on if they were really killed or not.
Like I said to OutRiddled, we can only tally what we see and hear about.

Bottom line: I am not the biggest Ledger fan, I also don't like "The Dark Knight" anymore. No one is going to convince me otherwise.
Nobody is trying to change your mind. As I said your agreement is not necessary

"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

- The Joker

Last edited by The Joker; 03-21-2013 at 06:44 PM.
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