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Old 03-21-2013, 11:38 PM   #514
The Joker
The Clown Prince of Crime
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Arkham Asylum
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

Originally Posted by OutRiddled View Post
Too simple.
No, just human nature, which is often simple.

We are talking about life and death, here. I don't believe that no one would try to act. This was just too convenient for the plot and poor writing.
Someone did try to act, and then he could not go through with it. How did you miss that?

So he goes all Jigsaw killer on us? By forcing people to kill others to save themselves? I don't buy it.
You don't buy what? That Joker wanted to prove that people will turn into mass murderers just to save their own skin? What's not to believe? That everyone is rotten enough to kill hundreds of people because they personally want to live?

That's not what I got from it - maybe he meant because he had already killed people, that there was "no escape".
He was pointing at the scarred side of his face when he said it. What else do you think he meant by doing that?

Even in Two-Face's first issue, his appearance ****ed him up, and made him even more psychotic. I never got that vibe from The Dark Knight.
I did. From the moment he screamed silently when he saw the scarred coin, when he turned around and told Gordon he was not sorry, not yet etc. I could tell he was completely gone over the edge.

Many people would do that if their loved one was seriously threatened.
Many people would kidnap someone in an ambulance, take them to an alley, tie them up, and terrorize them with a gun?

Pull the other one it's got bells on it.

I'll grant you that, he became a revenge obsessed vigilante killer, willing to go extremes to get his version of justice. But it wasn't the dual personality Two-Face that most of us know. Even Batman Forever got this aspect right. It was barely even hinted at in The Dark Knight.
Wrong again. The whole concept of his revenge was based on the 50/50 chance. Duality of whether you live or die, just like the 50/50 chance he and Rachel had.

To quote Two Face in BTAS: "Chance is everything. Whether you're born or not. Whether you live or die. Whether you're good or bad"

That was the basis of Dent's revenge spree.

Batman '89 wasn't planned to be the beginning of this huge franchise. It was a self-contained movie. Hence, the need to tie up loose plot threads to make it coherent.
It's got nothing to do with being a self contained movie. It's about good writing. Nothing would have changed if the murderer of Bruce's parents was not the Joker, only that it would have made for a less contrived convenient script than what we got in Batman '89.

Something to make his descent into madness more believable.
See how sane you feel when you're betrayed, half your face is burned off and someone you love is murdered.

He wasn't just a vigilante in the comics. Of course, he sought revenge. Even in Batman Forever, he was trying to get revenge on Batman.
He wasn't a vigilante in TDK either. He was just someone killing people who he think personally wronged him. It was revenge, not vigilantism. Batman's a vigilante. Dent wasn't.

Not in the same way as The Killing Joke. Joker never actually does anything with Dent, only steer him towards the revenge path against the corruption that led to his tragedies.
LOL yeah apart from causing his disfigurement and kill his girlfriend, yeah he didn't do a thing to him.

In Killing Joke, he shoots Gordon's daughter and tortures him with images of her wounded body.
That's not nearly as bad as what he did to Dent in TDK. At least Barbara lived and Gordon walked away sane and physically unharmed.

In The Dark Knight, I can't remember the exact dialogue but all he does is convince Dent that Gordon and the police are responsible.
Dent was already convinced of that. He was out for revenge on Gordon before Joker ever set foot in that hospital:

Gordon: "I'm sorry, Harvey"
Dent: "No. No you're not. Not yet"

Joker added some fuel to the fire and put a gun in his hand to do the job. But he didn't let the Joker off the hook either. Joker got the gun put to his head and the toss of the coin for his life just like everyone else Dent went after.

"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"

- The Joker

Last edited by The Joker; 03-21-2013 at 11:41 PM.
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