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Old 03-22-2013, 09:56 AM   #516
OutRiddled
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 507
Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
You're completely forgetting or ignoring the fact that Joker set up the whole scenario that led to Rachel's death and Harvey's scarring. The biggest trick Joker plays in the whole film is switching those addresses on Batman. He knew exactly what he was doing.

He manipulated everything to get Dent to do what he wanted.
Oh, did he? That's not made entirely clear in the movie. It could be the mob wanting revenge, and Joker just giving them ideas. It's not really explained.

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Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
No, just human nature, which is often simple.
Made simple for these scenes, at least.


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Someone did try to act, and then he could not go through with it. How did you miss that?
That was one person. It was a whole boatload full of people.

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You don't buy what? That Joker wanted to prove that people will turn into mass murderers just to save their own skin? What's not to believe? That everyone is rotten enough to kill hundreds of people because they personally want to live?
That's just survival instinct. It's like Joker is taking a page out of Saw and is going all Jigsaw on us.


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He was pointing at the scarred side of his face when he said it. What else do you think he meant by doing that?
Ok, fair enough.

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I did. From the moment he screamed silently when he saw the scarred coin, when he turned around and told Gordon he was not sorry, not yet etc. I could tell he was completely gone over the edge.
Because his woman died. The annoying, two-timing *****.


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Many people would kidnap someone in an ambulance, take them to an alley, tie them up, and terrorize them with a gun?

Pull the other one it's got bells on it.
You don't know what you would do if someone you care about was threatened.

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Wrong again. The whole concept of his revenge was based on the 50/50 chance. Duality of whether you live or die, just like the 50/50 chance he and Rachel had.
That's all well and good but that's not supposed to why Two-Face uses his coin. He's two personalities, and cannot decide, so he lets the coin decide.

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To quote Two Face in BTAS: "Chance is everything. Whether you're born or not. Whether you live or die. Whether you're good or bad"

That was the basis of Dent's revenge spree.
If by basis you mean moral justification, then ok.


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It's got nothing to do with being a self contained movie. It's about good writing. Nothing would have changed if the murderer of Bruce's parents was not the Joker, only that it would have made for a less contrived convenient script than what we got in Batman '89.
Only in the sense, that it didn't follow the comic books. I don't expect 100% fidelity to the comic lore. The same thing with Joker creating Two-Face. Don't you think that's a little too convenient, plot-wise? Same thing, but they're movies not comic books and sometimes they have to change things.

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See how sane you feel when you're betrayed, half your face is burned off and someone you love is murdered.
I'm just disappointed we never got to see 'Big Bad Harv' and his split personality.

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He wasn't a vigilante in TDK either. He was just someone killing people who he think personally wronged him. It was revenge, not vigilantism. Batman's a vigilante. Dent wasn't.
He takes the law into his own hands, so he's a vigilante.

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LOL yeah apart from causing his disfigurement and kill his girlfriend, yeah he didn't do a thing to him.
Joker didn't do it personally, he had the mob do it for him.

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That's not nearly as bad as what he did to Dent in TDK. At least Barbara lived and Gordon walked away sane and physically unharmed.

Dent was already convinced of that. He was out for revenge on Gordon before Joker ever set foot in that hospital:

Gordon: "I'm sorry, Harvey"
Dent: "No. No you're not. Not yet"

Joker added some fuel to the fire and put a gun in his hand to do the job. But he didn't let the Joker off the hook either. Joker got the gun put to his head and the toss of the coin for his life just like everyone else Dent went after.
Yeah, but besides orchestrating certain events with the mob, that's all he did. "Madness is like gravity. All you need is a little push." He was trying to give Dent that "little push".

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Originally Posted by Brain Damage View Post
Someone who is two-faces presents themselves one way while acting in a different way. Harvey presented himself as being an honest man, yet he investigated cops behind their back - that's what internal affairs does. Clearly this was not lost on the cops themselves:

GORDON: "If I didn't work with cops you investigated while you were making your name at IA, I'd be working alone."

Hence the name Harvey Two-Face.
Fair enough.

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