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Old 03-26-2013, 07:27 PM   #555
The Joker
Clown Prince of Crime
 
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Join Date: Dec 2003
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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Originally Posted by OutRiddled View Post
Oh, c'mon, she was like I'll slap you in the face because I'm your moral compass and your inspiration to become a better man. That was her only purpose in the movie. She wasn't a character, she was a plot device.
What would you do if your best friend revealed to you he intended to murder someone? I'd give him a slap, too.

Vicki Vale, that's a plot device. She ticks every cliche in the book. Meets the hero for the first time. Fall in love with the hero after one night in the sack. Target of the villain. Damsel in distress at every turn, complete with the annoying screaming like a banshee.

Rachel broke the stereotype. She knew the hero since childhood. They didn't share any romantic moments in the movie until the end. Their connection and relationship was one based on years of friendship, not a one night roll in the hay. Because she was an honest D.A. in a very corrupt city, she became a natural target for the criminals, not just the hero's girl who is grabbed for the sake of being rescued.

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No, but that could've been used for her introduction instead of what we got. Her making Bruce Wayne look like a cripple and an idiot.
Bruce Wayne WAS a cripple. He was hobbling around on a cane because he had no cartilage in his knees.

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Maybe you should actually read the comic. It's on the pirate bay somewhere. I read it a long time ago and can't be bothered looking for it again.
I have read the comic. I own it. Is there any particular page you want me to scan because none of it is going to help your case lol.

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That's because Batman is a character that likes to hide in the shadows in Tim Burton's movies. Perfect contrast to the Joker. Burton even says so in the commentary on Batman.
That doesn't make it a good characterization. Batman is supposed to be the main character. This is his first movie. He should have been front and center of the story.

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Bruce is going after Vicki. Joker is going after Vicki. "Nice apartment you got here. Lots of space." - Said by both Bruce Wayne and Joker to Vicki.
Again how does this make them the same? Dent and Bruce both loved Rachel. That didn't make them the same.

You're clutching at straws. The only thing Batman and Joker shared in Batman '89 was the horrible contrived connection of creating each other.

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It wasn't made so clear.
Only if you ignore the plethora of quotes I posted which TELL you in plain simple terms.

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Like I'm supposed to believe that the Joker made all of these elaborate plans.
You're watching a movie about a guy who dresses like a giant bat. Elaborate plans are a drop in the ocean compared to that.

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It's not even made clear that he took over the entire mob. "Tell your men they work for me now" is all we get.
That's all you need. You forgot to add the "This is MY city" quote, too. That makes it very clear.

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Joker in '89 killed Grissom, and all of the other mob leaders. I tend to believe that Joker is as he says "just a mad dog chasing cars", because I find it hard to believe he was able to execute all of these plans with full co-operation by the mob (especially as Maroni was still alive at that point).
It doesn't matter what you want to believe. You've been making things up and missing the obvious consistently since we started this discussion. You're ignoring what the movie tells and shows you. Meaning you're being ignorant for no reason.

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Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
OutRiddled, I know this is between you and The Joker here, but I'd walk away if I was debating you here. There's nothing more to say if you don't accept that the mob "turned to a man that they didn't understand". Even Maroni has regrets about what happened to Dent. They gave Joker the means to pull everything off because they were getting desperate. They brought him in to take down Batman, and Joker went off the rails. It's really that simple. Whether you're happy with how that was presented is another thing entirely, but that absolutely was the situation in the movie. You can't change the facts to support your opinion.

There's nothing wrong with preferring Nicholson, but your attempt to explain "objectively" why his was a better version of the character has been one huge fail.
Exactly

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Last edited by The Joker; 03-26-2013 at 07:30 PM.
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