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Old 03-26-2013, 09:20 PM   #955
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 7,648
Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do

Originally Posted by Gotham's Knight View Post
Ah, well, in that case, fair enough. I mostly just don't understand those who do like TDKReturns and are fine with it there compared to TDKRises' retirement.
Two completely different things. They quit for two completely different reasons and the world around them reacted and was affected by this in two completely different ways.

Also, the TDK Returns retirement is a lot more acceptable to begin with because the book is not a sequel to anything while the TDK Rises retirement doesn't really work in the context of the franchise. The first two movies clearly hinted over and over again that this was Batman at the beginning of his career and that he was going to be Batman for a long time. Many things point to this such as:

-The first two movies being heavily based on stories that take place in Batman's early years like Year One and The Long Halloween, even dealing with the same themes.
-Bruce gravely underestimating the threat to Gotham in Begins. It wasn't Falcone that was the the major threat, it was the LOS.
-Bruce not expecting to cause bad inspiration to Gotham via the copycats and the Joker.
-The whole theme about escalation and the "freaks" and how more and more have started appearing in Gotham due since Batman's arrival.
-Rachel leaving Bruce because she felt he was always going to need Batman.
-Rachel, the main reason Bruce wanted to quit being Batman in the first place so that he could be with her and have a normal life, is killed off essentially removing something that held him back.
-The Joker saying he and Batman were destined to do battle forever.
-Alfred saying Bruce can endure as Batman because he can take it.
-Gordon said they were going to hunt Batman because he can take it.
-Bruce seeing the man who he thought would be the perfect replacement for Batman be corrupted and brought down to the Joker's level.
-Nolan saying in an interview from 2008 that he doesn't want to bring in Robin into the franchise because his version of Batman was still in his early career as Batman thus Robin was still a little kid, which means he wouldn't appear for a "few films".
-Nolan saying in some book or interview before TDKR that Bruce's original plan was to be Batman for just a temporary time (couple of years or so) only to learn at some point that "things wouldn't be so easy".

These are all just off the top of my head.

All these things heavily imply and hint that Nolan's Batman would continue to be Batman for a LONG time even if TDKR would've been the last one in the franchise. One can even argue that based on all of that, Nolan was trying to show how Bruce grows into the role of Batman starting out as being a more grounded Batman like the one in Frank Miller's Batman: Year One to a Batman a lot closer to the Batman from the comics that take place a few years into Batman's career that most fans consider to feature the ideal version of Batman. Heck, if you compare the Batman in BB to the one in TDK, you can see that at the end of TDK is not the same Batman he was at the start of BB or even at the end of BB.

Do all those things make the 8 year retirement automatically contradictory? Not necessarily but that is not my point. My point is that although the 8 year retirement may not completely contradict TDK's ending, it is clearly obvious that the 8-year retirement was not something originally planned and that Nolan was setting up something other than that for the third movie. TDKR feels like a backup/second story and as if there was a movie between it and TDK that we missed. It doesn't naturally flow well with TDK like how TDK naturally flew well with BB IMO.

This is just my opinion of course, but I think the main reasons for this are 1) Heath Ledger's death not only saddened Nolan immensely but also screwed up a lot of Nolan's plans for the third movie since he didn't want to recast the Joker and 2) This was his last movie and Nolan didn't want WB to touch his franchise after he left so he contrived a plot that featured a Batman that's been retired for 8 years and that retires for good at the end.

I hope this helped you gain a better understanding of why I and so many other people are not too fond of the 8 year retirement idea. I can understand why other people don't mind it but personally, it bugs me big time.

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