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Old 03-30-2013, 01:35 PM   #919
josh8
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Default Re: 'X-men: DOFP' Official CAST Thread (announcements and discussion)

Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Maniac View Post
I like it that you like my mutant wallpaper phrase...

But I don't really agree with you, to be honest.

There were gaps and leaps between X2 and X3 that weren't entirely very natural. Nightcrawler vanished, a new president was elected, a Dept of Mutant Affairs was operational (and yet Scott was still upset over Jean, so it can't have been that long since the end of X2). We can make up our own theories, but there was no explanation. Your theory won't be the same as my theory, so those fan theories aren't THE explanation for what happened.

As for Multiple Man and Juggernaut, we have to assume they were captured again. Multiple Man was surrounded by troops with guns, Juggernaut was knocked unconscious (maybe even into a coma) on Alcatraz after banging his head on the wall. There was no explanation, but assuming they were imprisoned again is pretty logical.

As for Banshee, Havok and Emma, it is a real shame they will be written out, perhaps with no explanation (and perhaps there WILL be an explanation).

I liked that they had introduced Banshee and Havok, though it messed with the timeline and went against Xavier saying Storm, Jean and Scott were among his first students. But at least it felt like they were trying to expand the movieverse a bit by adding in Banshee and Havok.

Banshee and Havok are definitely significant in the comics mythos. The first team consisted of Scott, Jean, Beast, Iceman and Angel. Then Havok and Polaris were added, to make a team of seven. And then the X-Men were revived in 1975 with a new international roster of Storm, Colossus, Thunderbird, Sunfire, Banshee, Wolverine and Nightcrawler, whose first mission was to rescue the previous seven X-Men. (Banshee had once fought the original five X-Men so he was not entirely new). Those are all significant in X-Men history. Other characters have come and gone since then, including Rogue and Psylocke being added, and also Emma Frost.

Banshee and Havok are big parts of the X-Men mythos, and so is Emma Frost (as villain and X-Men member).

Yes, the big-screen version is different, and in many ways it's far more muddled and random because characters are chosen in a way that isn't at all respectful of the original material. They are picked for interesting powers or some other reason. These background characters end up being frustrating for the fans.

Take a look at Avengers and the Dark Knight films. Avengers introduced Maria Hill and gave Hawkeye an expanded role from his cameo in Thor. That was it. They didn't throw in other comic book Avengers as filler, background cameos or cannon fodder. Same with the Dark Knight saga - we didn't get Riddler or Penguin cameos.

It's a shame to just jettison Havok, Banshee and Emma, and even Azazel considering his parental link to Nightcrawler. It's beginning to feel like very little thought is given to the choice of secondary characters. They aren't made to be meaningful.

Same with some of the more key characters such as Storm - it's a wonder she has made it into more than one movie without suddenly disappearing with no explanation. Don't you remember how the studio wanted Cyclops to have died off-screen between X2 and X3? And how it was rumoured that either the studio (or Singer, according to some accounts) wanted to omit Storm from X3 with no explanation?

Omitting Banshee and Havok and Emma is part of the same thinking that also saw Cyclops die in the first 15 minutes of X3 and has turned Storm into a special effect and little else.

Seriously, squandering these characters has to stop. Or we'll never get beyond Xavier, Magneto and Wolverine. Is that what you really want? Nothing more than Xavier, Magneto, Wolverine and some mutant wallpaper?
I can understand being upset about dropping Havok and Banshee without explanation (I really do think DOFP will make it clear that it was just a case of people moving on), but the X2 to transition X3 is a weak comparison.

There's nothing similar in terms of the changes.

So Nightcrawler was dropped? Him joining the team and him not joining the team are both two logical outcomes.

There was a new president? Presidents changing are also a natural occurrence.

A Department of Mutant Affairs was created. Why is an explanation needed for this?

And we can't keep using the Avengers as this sort of holy grail movie that we must all compare too. (On a side note, I thought the movie was good when it came out, but honestly it's pretty fluffy and disposable.) Marvel used a different strategy since many of the characters are iconic enough to have their own movies (except for Wolverine, X-Men characters are not). They had MANY movies to set up ONE move with only 6 or 7 main characters. And they've only made ONE Avengers movie. We don't even know what the next phase will be like.

As for the rumors about X3... I did hear about talk of having Scott die off-screen. But in the end, it didn't happen that way so you have no argument there. I also never heard of them dropping Storm. The studio DEFINITELY wanted her in and even wanted to shoehorn in a romance between her and Logan.

Anyways, back to Havok and Banshee. I'm a huge X-Men fan (both comics and movies) and I don't have any problem with them not returning for the next movie. I really can't say who's opinion of casual moviegoers is correct, but I don't see them mulling over things like this either. The reason fanboys have such a bad reputation is exactly something like this. Caring too much (to the point of obsession) about the details that are not truly significant.

As for squandering characters... I think the Banshee and Havok characters were fortunate enough to be in even one movie. This is actually exactly like the comics. The B-characters join, but the A-list characters always come back to shine.


Last edited by josh8; 03-30-2013 at 01:38 PM.
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