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Old 04-04-2013, 09:11 PM   #77
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 7,645
Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do - Part 1

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
I'd love to see the quote from Nolan or anyone involved with the production that says venom was too unrealistic.

The anesthetic concept just worked better for the story and themes.
That post was addressed to those that try to argue that the Venom drug could not work in the Nolanverse, not to Nolan and the production crew.

On the topic of it working better, I disagree. I think having the Venom drug would've made much more sense and would've worked better for 2 reasons:

1) We see Bane destroying a pillar and break the back of a guy wearing armor all with his bare hands. No human being can do realistically that. Him having an enhanced drug like the Venom drug or any other sort of advanced steroid would've helped it made more sense for why he could do all those things realistically speaking.

2) The Venom drug is an example of Bane's physical, mental, and emotional strength. Many of the people that the Santa Prisca scientists experimented on have died from the Venom drug. Then they brought Bane in because they considered him to be the perfect man for the job. The fact that he was able to not only survive the drug but have the ability to control it is what made him so terrifying and worthy of an opponent to Batman to begin with. That is more impressive than a guy on pain meds that would presumably die not too long after you separate him from the meds IMHO.

Also, to address your post from WAY back about Nolan that I never got the chance to reply to, no I am not calling Nolan a liar but I do think Ledger's death affected his vision for the third movie - either from a story point of view, emotional point of view, or both - and he just didn't know what to do from that point on. Also, I'm not sure I can trust him anymore on what he says about the trilogy since I've seen him contradict himself a couple of times already if you compare everything he said pre-TDKR with everything from post-TDKR. That's just my view though.

As for me reading too much into the Robin line, I think you're misunderstanding my point. My point was that what he said about Robin and Bale being a "young Batman" greatly implies that even if the ending would've been the same, he did not plan for Bruce to reach the end of his journey that quick. In his mind, Bruce was nowhere near retiring for 8 years or retiring overall yet.

As for your response about Bruce quitting, you missed my point entirely. Yes, there are ways to make Bruce retire. Heck, I'll go as far as to say that maybe you can find a way to have Bruce retire for good leaving Batman completely behind. My problem with the ending wasn't so much the fact that Bruce retired - even though that bugs me since I can't see Batman doing that but that's a personal preference - but the way everything was executed. Gotham was literally in a worse condition than it ever was. Worse than at the end of Begins when it got hit with fear gas. Worse than at the end of TDK when it almost lost all hope. The city and its people have literally almost tore themselves apart in a way it never did before. The Dent Act is also gone and although all the criminals are arrested at the end of TDKR, what exactly will keep them in jail now? Heck, the argument that everyone who likes TDKR uses to defend Nolan for dropping the whole "freaks" theme is that the Dent Act and Harvey's image is what got rid of them/pushed them away from Gotham. I don't agree with that argument but for the sake of argument, let's say it is true. By that logic, the freaks would be back by the end of TDKR. Bruce retires at the worst time possible - that's the first problem.

The second problem is that Bruce lies to everyone by faking his own death and by saying the autopilot doesn't work even though one of the messages in the movie is that lying is wrong even if it is for the greater good, which is why everyone that lied at the end of TDK (Bruce, Alfred, Gordon, etc.) suffers the consequences for that in this movie.

The third and biggest problem is Bruce's plan on how to keep Batman alive while being retired. It is basically finding a replacement. Fine. No problem. Who is his replacement? A guy he only knew for like 2 scenes that he all of a sudden trusts now. How can Bruce trust Blake when he literally just had like just 3 short scenes with him? On top of that, he doesn't even bother to at least stay in Gotham for a few months to train Blake AKA a rookie cop with nowhere near the experience required to be Batman before he decides to retire in Europe with Selina. He literally just gives him the Batcave and leaves. He doesn't even know if Blake will want to become a vigilante. It goes back to the analogy I gave about a driving instructor just passing the car keys to one of his newest students and saying "Here. You're on your own. I got better things to do." Would it have hurt to keep an eye on him at least for a few months?

It is mainly the execution that makes me dislike the ending.

How I rate movies:

Last edited by Shikamaru; 04-04-2013 at 09:43 PM.
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