Originally Posted by Skrilla31
Okay so it's wrong when Joker has a hand in creating Batman but it's okay when Ra's Al Ghul has a hand in creating Batman? Where do you draw the line? At what point is it okay to take a few liberties and at what point isn't it? The fact is in both cases, the origin of Batman is re-imagined so that the filmmaker is able to tell a stronger story.
Let me clarify; Bruce doesn't lay his existence as Batman on Ra's AL Ghul. He went traveling the world studying criminals. He went seeking the means to fight injustice and turn fear on those who preyed on the fearful.
All things he wanted before he met Ra's. All Ra's did was offer him the path to get it. No different to all those experts he got training from in the comics. He no more owes his existence as Batman to them than he does to Ra's in Begins. Not to mention Ra's thinking Bruce is the best man to run his organization and lead his men is taken straight from the comics.
In Batman '89, his entire existence as Batman is down to the Joker. The Joker made him. He outright says so.
I'm sorry I just don't see it that way. Again, Burton had just one movie to tell the story of Batman and Joker. One movie to show us that relationship. So rather than paint Joker as just some maniac that emerged during Batman's crusades later in life, he decided to make him more essential to the mythos and more connected to Batman himself. It has more to do than just getting revenge for his parents. It suggests that a balance is needed. That a Batman could not exist without a Joker and that a Joker could not exist without a Batman. That these two were destined to clash. To tell the story of Joker is to tell the story of Batman.
All of that was contrived unnecessary hog wash.
Batman created the Joker by dropping him in the chemicals. There's their destiny to clash right there. It's no more fate than the Penguin or Catwoman or any other subsequent villain. If you're a threat to Gotham City then you're going to clash with Batman.
Dropping in at the last moment that Joker killed his parents turned a potentially interesting feud into a contrived unbelievable cliche, and ruined their feud.