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Old 04-13-2013, 12:41 PM   #55
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Default Re: Luke Cage introduced in Avengers 2, Hulk blasted into space

Originally Posted by Artistsean View Post
Changing is fine, like say making the experiment linked to the Captain America Super Soldier program. But changing his origin is a bigger deal, making him not a criminal who is experimented on in prison is like turning Tony Stark into a teenager or having Peter Parker be a mutant. Its just different. It changes his motivations.
The origin I created for Cage still has him as a criminal. He is still wrongfully convicted. He is still a volunteer. His motivations for undergoing the experiment, the desire to get out of jail, is the same. The difference is Cage's story before he was wrongfully imprisoned, his story in the prison (the racism stuff could be touched on but shouldn't be focused on as the film isn't about racism) and the motivations of the scientists conducting the experiments.

Zola experimented on all the men Captain America, in the movie, freed, including Bucky who isn't dead because he returns as the Winter Soldier (according to the director). So its a great comparison. Zola used them as Guinea pigs because he didn't care what happened to them. That picture is of Captain America walking them back to base after saving them from Zola.
"There's an isolation ward in the factory but no one has ever come back from it." That is the line spoken by the british dude after Cap frees the soldiers. The soldiers had not been experimented on at that time. That line also implies that all those soldiers who were taken away are DEAD. Bucky is found alive because the experiments had not been concluded.

The soldiers were supposed to die at the conclusion of the experiments while Cage is meant to live. Zola used the soldiers as guinea pigs because he didn't care while the scientist who experimented on Cage did, hence why Cage was chosen for the experiments. These are not comparable as the expected outcomes are different.

In the comics Wolverine was abducted and experimented on and turned into Weapon X, a super healing mutant with metal claws and became uncontrollable. In the movie Logan agreed to it but then went mad and escaped. Its the same idea.
Cage didn't go mad. He just wants out of prison. Comic origins and mine agree on this.

Perhaps AIM reasoned that the criminals in prison would join them once they gave them the power. Its not unreasonable to think that a criminal might join a terrorist group if it got them off of death row and away from the death penalty.
This is part of the origin I put together for Cage. Did you read it? It doesn't have to be death row but that's a minor point and not worth arguing.

Its also not like Luke Cage would be perfectly behaved in prison either, he could be a guy who gets in lots of fights, is surly, bad tempered to the guards and other inmates, and maybe doesn't seem like a Captain America type to the AIM scientists.
Angry black man in jail. Audience may find it difficult to root for that guy.

Using Parole may be illegal, but its a fictional comic book story, people also don't have super powers.
This argument gives you the license to do anything. The film still operates in the real world. This is a secondary question that avoids the first and my main issue: Why are you experimenting on a prisoner instead of a volunteer not in prison? AIM was able to gather folks for extremis, why is it impossible to find someone to volunteer for this? People volunteer to strap bombs to their chests, why can't you find a volunteer for this?

And AIM are terrorists who don't care whats legal. So if they had the run of the prison, lots of criminals to experiment on, I don't think it would bother them that it was illegal. And like I said, the criminals either die, or they kill them, or they join them.

Would it help if they showed that Cage wasn't the only success but that AIM killed all the others, and Cage was able to escape them?
Wait, what? Why is AIM killing their successes? Where is the logic in what you're proposing? What is the purpose of experimenting on these folks if you are just going to kill them off? I don't get this.

I get that you don't like the idea of experimenting on criminals, but that is his origin as much as Captain America being a skinny soldier who is experimented on during WWII or Peter Parker being a teenager who is bitten by a spider, or Tony Stark being a genius rich inventor, or Reed being a scientist, or Black Panther being the King of Wakanda, or Bruce Wayne being the orphan son who saw his parents killed in front of him.
I am not against experimenting on criminals if given the proper motivations and I don't believe Cage's comic origins are good enough to make that leap.

You should really try slowing down and understanding what I wrote. Experimenting on criminals for no reason is dumb. Experimenting on criminals when there should be plenty of volunteers is dumb.

Please read and understand what I have written before you reply. You state that I disagree with things that I do not. It's very clear.

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