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Old 05-28-2013, 08:39 PM   #53
DrCosmic
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Default Re: Race changes that wouldn't bother you

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Originally Posted by weezerspider View Post
1. Spiderman 2099 is stupid. I've always hated it. So pointing to one stupid decision by Marvel to justify another one is...well stupid. It would be a nice comeback if I earlier had expressed my love for Spiderman 2099, but I didn't. Spiderman 2099 is just has stupid to me as the new Ultimate Spiderman and GASP! Spiderman 2099 is WHITE and I still don't like him!?!
So? You were wrong. A picture made it funny. That's all that happened.

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2. Regarding the bolded statement, you can't just claim something is better without giving any justifiable reasons why. Once again, turning an already established character's race does not make a character better. How can it?
How can a single character be diverse? Since you can't add diversity to a character, I must be talking about story. All you have to do is imagine a "story" where everything is the same to see that diversity is desirable. Some people don't like certain types of diversity, sure, but the principle is sound.

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3. When the **** did I bring up California? Also, I find it completely asinine and narrow-minded that you claim I 'don't like diversity'. 'People don't like diversity' or 'people who like the way things were in the 60's' is the kind of narrow-minded name calling that causes this kind of discussion to be a hassle anyway. I know what that means. You're nicely calling me a racist. Good to know bro. I'm a racist. Thanks for pointing that out. Too bad the KKK wouldn't let me in because I'm Jewish.
Are you not referring to people in California when you say them changing the race of a character is stupid? I could have said Hollywood, for clarity, but I wanted to highlight how remote your idea of political correctness being involved in these decisions is. And it's true, those particular descriptions do imply support of a segregated society, however I do not pretend to know your motivation, it could be fear of change, it could be callous indifference, it could be any number of things, I just don't know. If I had to guess, I would suspect it involves a very strong vision of what these movies "should" be like. Regardless of why, your actions and statements are that you prefer some things the way they were in the 60s. That's simple fact. Why is up to you.

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4. If you were smart, which you apparently are not, you would know the reason I brought up changing black/hispanic characters to white was not because I want to do that, it was to make a point. The point was changing the race of any character is stupid and pointless. If race is part of what makes us then changing the race is changing the character. If race doesn't matter, than you shouldn't care one way or another. Its a catch 22. I want my characters to be how they originally intended to be. I'll fight just as hard to keep Black Panther black as I will Spiderman white.
Oh, I understood the point, it's the same point that everyone who makes that suggestion has. My counterpoint, were the ideas of diversity and updating. With a principle of diversity, changing over-represented types to underreprsented types increases diversity, but not the other way around. So if racial diversity is a value, then it doesnt' go either way at all, does it?

For updating, many fans ignore the fact that these characters were originally intended to represent the sixties and seventies. That's not how we want them to be now. We want them to be updated... except for race. Don't update that, keep that the same, but it's okay to change everything else from what was originally intended. This of course draws the question of what exactly was originally intended, and that would actually be a great convo for this thread.

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But yeah. Thanks for calling me a racist. You showed us how to have class in a simple discussion. When someone disagrees with you, just call them names!
When someone mimics actions of those who I know to be ill motivated, I simply point out the similarities, for the benefit of all involved, and let those people decide what to do with that. I do not claim to know your character, even though you claim to know the character of others. So by your standard, you are the one without class.

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Also, DC could easily sell Batwing, he's a pretty cool character, if they actually marketed the hell out of him and had him appear in other Batman comics and stuff. Again, the companies are lazy. I know creating a new popular character is hard work, but it can be done pretty easily if you actually do the hard work. Deadpool rose to fame when they started putting him in everything from Cable and Deadpool, to multiple titles ex. Marvel decided to market the hell out of him because he had sort of a following and now he's one of the most popular comic characters even outside of the comic community. He even has his own video game now. In the grand scheme of things, its easier to kill off a character so many people love like Peter Parker, and put a new face in an already established suit then to create a new unique one.
Like you said, it's much easier to do a legacy character, especially if the original has run it's course, than to do a new character. Another issue is that companies are made up of people. One person at the top being interested in Deadpool doesn't make him appear in multiple titles in a way that makes people like him. A lot of people at Marvel love Deadpool, and that's why he's become what he's become, no one has undermined or questioned the character at all, even to the point where some were sick of him. "Why is Deadpool being crammed down my throat." No one says this of Spider-Man or Wolverine, because he's "supposed" to be everywhere. So I wouldn't describe what happened to Deadpool as "easy," nor would simply marketing do the same for Batwing. There's a lot of timing to it. You've got to have that small following to capitalize on.

Oddly, though, you do have to give them a new suit, but having the same name makes it easier to get other people on board. And while you might think it's stupid, Miles Morales' Spider-Man is one of the few consistently great books there are.

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Last edited by DrCosmic; 05-28-2013 at 08:45 PM.
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