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Old 07-21-2013, 09:46 PM   #11
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Default Re: All Things Superman: An Open Discussion (Spoilers) - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part

Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
In an age when every second critics suggests michael bay thinks his audience to be stupid.
I think not.
I don't understand what that has to do with anything.

Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
A seasoned commando? Batman invaded a city full of innocent people with an atomic bomb on the loose. In the midst of all this, people were dying(good and bad). He should not only know better(batman wouldn't follow a micheal bay battle plan) but he should be visually upset about this situation, instead he spends his time yelling threats at the bad guy.
Yeah, but none of that disproves my point that Batman is a seasoned veteran at that point while Superman in Man of Steel isn't. Also he wasn't seeing first hand dozens of buildings imploding all around him. They're different contexts.

Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
A newbie superhero facing armageddon with stakes bane could only dream of. I think if batman can be assertive in his situation, this superman has a little room to be business first in his. That being said, his concern was clearly shown after zods threats.
But the problem is that it wasn't shown during the threat. And there's no reason not to show it during the threat.

Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
There are alot of tine things that come together to convey who he is, you are implying that we forget all of that in the absence of a line utterance?
No. I'm not implying that forgetting has anything to do with this. I'm saying that in that scene Superman acts like he doesn't care about the destruction going on around him and that's weird and one line of dialogue and one reaction shot would have fixed that.

Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
I agree that a small thing perhaps can change alot. If superman made a might fight joke the way any of the avengers did during their calamity in the thrid act, I can see why people would think he's just as bad as they are, but the lack of such a line doesn't say all that much imo. It's a safe assumption that superman could have have as well been thinking all of these things.
The Avengers weren't bad at all. In fact, they acknowledged and reacted to potential civilian casualties, which Superman didn't do at all. And yes, I know, The Avengers had more of an opportunity to save civilians, but my point is that there were moments on screen that showed that they were thinking about it. Even if Superman didn't have the opportunity to personally save innocent people, it's weird that it doesn't seem to be something that's crossing his mind at that moment.

It's not that we forget that he was established as a good guy already. It's that we expect an established good guy to continue to act like a good guy in such a situation. It's really weird when someone established to care about innocent lives doesn't react to dozens of buildings imploding all around him.

Yes, we are able to remember to earlier in the film and fill in the gaps and assume that he's thinking about that stuff, but the fact that he isn't reacting like a person who cares is a flaw in the filmmaking. Especially because such reactions wouldn't have been detrimental to the film, so there's no reason for the filmmakers to choose not to include them.

Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
Here's a thought, what is there to say to a man that just gave Zod's speech? "Please the people?"
Not sure that would do much given what zod was all about not but 4 hours earlier, but then again, maybe we should re-watch the final plea deal superman gives the man at the end there.
It wouldn't do much. But we're not talking about what would logically have the most practical outcome in that situation. We're talking about Superman's reaction. Sure, practically, in the context of the events of the film, Superman pleading for people's lives wouldn't have done anything. But it would have been a natural reaction from Superman in that situation and it would have demonstrated to the audience that both Superman and the filmmakers still care.

Ultimately, that's the problem with the last fight sequence. It's not just that Superman doesn't seem to care about the death toll around him. It's that the movie doesn't seem to care. It's showing us the spectacle of this big badass fight scene, but we know from relatively recent history that there are probably people in those buildings and the movie doesn't seem to care because it's too focused on the punching. That's what makes people uncomfortable.

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