Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises
We've argued this in circles for a year, and I know people feel the exact opposite about how TDKR cheapened TDK's ending, etc. But it's still really how I feel. Yes, in the end the film ends up serving as a deconstruction of TDK's ending, but with the time jump it still allows TDK's ending to be an 8 year victory. I'm sorry you see it as a "disgusting" waste of opportunity milost, but to be honest...I was never terribly interested in a movie about Batman as a fugitive. It just seemed kind of silly to me that Batman would invite that kind of heat on himself while trying to do his job. I'd feel no sympathy for him because he invited that on himself and chose to lie to Gotham for the sake of giving them a "white knight", and for what? With the way TDKR is setup, I actually do feel sorry for him. Maybe some people aren't comfortable feeling sorry for Bruce like that, I don't know. But it worked for me, I was totally invested from the first moment he limps on screen.
Invite that kind of heat on himself? What?
Who says Batman would even need to be active to be hunted? That is one of TDKR's biggest problems, it puts too much heavy handed impact on Harvey Dent (even more so than The Dark Knight) and it's outcome with the city, but not enough on Batman. All we get from the movie is that Batman is/was a "thug murderous thug" that's been missing since "DAT night 8 years ago", which again, is all exposition! Just like the Tony Stark clean energy project turned nuclear macguffin bomb. Just like John Blake's "I knew from that feel bro". Just like Alfred's "this happened during those 7 years, before Batman".
If they're going to give Gordon and Batman's decision at the end of The Dark Knight so much weight like they do in TDKR to the point of Harvey Dent Days (and ridiculous Acts that makes characters quip about overdue library books) and put so much emphasis on "oh, woe is me, our dear white knight in shining armor fought for justice to the bitter end until that murderous thug broke his neck", then what does that make Batman? A CRIMINAL, a MAN, that killed 5 people, including cops, beat down some SWAT teams, presumably kidnapped Gordon's family, (I would still love to see how that one was explained) and SNAPPED Harvey Dent's neck.
If you're going to put emphasis on the results
then what about the actual aftermath of the event? From what TDKR shows us, Gotham should want blood. ESPECIALLY the GCPD. The only glimpse of "fugitive Batman" is from a viral wanted poster promoting the film! That's it! Okay, so Batman is a "murderous thug", uhhhh, try and catch the guy? That's compelling stuff in and of itself. How is that a cop out, showing that
? That's the premise Dark Knight's ending is built upon.
The Dark Knight's end even tells us this. It straight up says it. "You'll hunt me, condemn me", "We'll hunt him, because he can take it
". We even see Gordon severing his relationship with Batman in front of ALL OF THE CITY by destroying the signal (which by the way, would show that the signal was indeed used to communicate with Batman and not "malfunctioning equipment", putting more pressure on Gordon to catch Batman).
They're going to go after Batman whether Batman is active or not. Remember "Official policy is to arrest the vigilante known as Batman on sight" and there was a manhunt for him in Begins, how would the city and police feel after they're told that Batman has not only turned against the police but has murdered multiple people, including their beloved Harvey Dent? TDKR conveniently doesn't show or even describe what happen.
I just don't see how that isn't a big deal or "silly". That's ALL we talked about before TDKR was even announced. How can you go over Florence Italy vacations, child orphanage visits, nuclear clean energy, etc. etc but gloss over the fact that Batman is a WANTED man for MURDER and that the guy that is chasing him is the newly christened police Commissioner that WORKED with him before? You can't just abandon that idea, YOU CAN'T. Not when you put so much emphasis on the end result, i.e. Harvey Dent Days, speeches, Blackgate and acts.
What's even worse and more pathetic is the fact that there's a good bit of folks that think Batman is a pretty cool guy in TDKR before even comes back. For some odd reason, orphans love him, even orphans that weren't even around when Batman was active. Some cops I guess love him. That old cop hesitates and quips when Batman shows up, doesn't even really want to hunt him down. Blake? Hell, Blake loves the guy from the get go. The citizens? They don't even seem to really care. What kind of message is that sending? That Batman and Gordon's lie worked, but people just don't care? People don't believe it? Huh? What? Atleast we got Foley I guess.
That's a cop out to me. It's like they wrote themselves into a corner with The Dark Knight's fantastic, crazy ending (which very well could have been the end of the series right then and there) and didn't know how to get themselves out. No more is done with the relationship between Batman and Gordon, they don't even let the audience take in the idea of old friends meeting after 8 long years in the hospital scene. The teaser trailer puts more emotional weight into it than the actual film does! Key ingredients that could be used against the conspiracy and make for some gripping plot are simply gone. Joker, Ramirez, Reese, SWAT guys that heard Gordon's call TO DENT and look at him, anyone involved, just gone.
I guarantee a sequel that touched (even if it was brief like just a prologue or a few scenes) on Batman/Bruce Wayne being hunted by his friend, James Gordon and the city he protects would have been better than, "Bane on a Plane", "Nuclear energy bomb", "Annie Blake and the St. Switthins orphans", "Alfred goes to Italy" exposition. I don't see how anyone could be vehemently against SEEING Bruce go through the dirt and having to pick himself up (RISE). Just skipping 8 years, abandoning all those concepts and showing a miserable, unlikable, hermit that wallows in his own self pity and has taken up archery because the director always wanted to make a Howard Hughes bio-pic is just flat out annoying to me.