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Old 08-10-2013, 07:04 PM   #67
milost
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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Default Re: Lol...if i didnīt know the critics and GAīs score for this movie...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DACrowe View Post
You see, that is your main problem. It isn't the movie YOU wanted him to make. It was not my idea for a third one as well. But the question is if the film Nolan made works, not whether it was the one we all predicted. The answer is yes. A resounding yes.
But there is a difference and there are more complaints than, "well, it wasn't where I wanted to see it all go".

You know what people mean when they say they wanted to see Batman being hunted.

Nolan and Co. (I still love it that people think that all of these ideas are from Christopher Nolan and that it's all HIS story when it was really collaborative. I bet the same thing is said for Interstellar) made their own story and film for The Dark Knight and you don't see me and others complaining do you? The Dark Knight was the logical step after Batman Begins while still packing quite a few surprises.

TDKR is just crazy where it goes when it still wants to be a sequel to The Dark Knight, Nolan even acknowledged in interviews that he, "thinks audiences will be quite surprised/shocked to learn that our story takes place 8 years in the future with a Bruce Wayne that's frozen in time, etc. etc."

So, what if TDKR was even worse and time jumped 20 to 30 years into the future with a 70 year old Bruce, and told us all this exposition about went on during those 20 to 30 years but as a screwy, single entity, the film and it's story worked on it's own? You wouldn't have a problem with that? Sure you wouldn't.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DACrowe View Post
You mean lines like:

"I don't like you have your own division Gordon that is full of cops I investigated over at Infernal Affairs."
Saw corruption in Batman Begins. Flass primarily, then what happened with Finch at the cargo docks.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DACrowe View Post
"As your enthusiastic new DA has put all my competitors out of business..."
This is the only one you get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DACrowe View Post
"Let's wind the clocks back a year. These cops and lawyers wouldn't dare touch any of you..."
Uhhh, Batman Begins?

Gordon was pretty much the only good cop amongst all the corruption. Nothing could really be done until Batman came into the picture. Don't you remember Falcone?


Quote:
Originally Posted by DACrowe View Post
"Since Carmine Falcone is in Arkham, someone had to step up and run the Falcone crime syndicate..."


We saw Falcone in Arkham in Batman Begins tied to a chair muttering "Scarecrow, Scarecrow".




Quote:
Originally Posted by DACrowe View Post
"Him Again?"/"It's the second time in six months."

Joker card, armed robbery, double homicide. Batman Begins. The actual BANK HEIST scene minutes prior to that exchange.




Quote:
Originally Posted by DACrowe View Post
It is actually full of exposition to tell us what has happened in the 12-18 months since BB , most importantly in how the mob's stance of power has changed and the rise of Harvey Dent to power as a White Knight, as well as Batman's success.


I think you're missing the point here. The exposition in The Dark Knight is completely different from the exposition in TDKR.

TDKR is telling us some PRETTY major plot points but not a single thing is really shown. It's heavy duty on the exposition AND establishing brand new points that the audience has never seen or heard about prior to the story.

The Dark Knight? The only exposition is there to set up Harvey Dent, everything else is really just recapping what has ALREADY been shown. Your argument doesn't work here because my problem with TDKR is that it throws all these things at the audience through dialogue alone or unnatural flashbacks that happened two films ago.



Which is more crucial, "him again" (referring to the Joker's bank heists that we actually SAW and HEARD about in Begins and in the beginning of the Dark Knight) or "I knew who you were by a look you had many years ago, at this one point of time and identified with the feeling that I have in my bones".

OR

"Since Carmine Falcone is in Arkham, someone had to step up and run the Falcone crime syndicate..." VS. Miranda Tate, Fox and Wayne mentioning the clean energy bomb that Wayne helped make that made him even more depressed in 3 years that isn't even a HINTED at in The Dark Knight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DACrowe View Post
Really it is not that different rom TDKR (not counting the Pit flashbacks in the second and third acts), save that TDKR focused on a story and angle you didn't want to see as much as the fugitive story. Case and point:
It is all that different, I just explained why.




Quote:
Originally Posted by DACrowe View Post
It's not about what I want...it's about sending a message.

Okay, seriously, yes TDKR went in a direction I did not foresee. But this is not my story, so the question is did I like where the story went? I thought it was fantastic. I will agree that there are several stories we likely could have had seen skipped to get to this ending, but that is because Nolan wanted to escalate to what an endgame would look like and what if a villain actually "broke" Gotham. So, he told that story instead of the ones you wanted. It still works on its own as a fantastic film.

It works for you, that's the disagreement here. What works for you doesn't necessarily work for the rest of us. I don't think it works at all for me on any level, even beyond the things that I "wanted to see". Even the things that I knew would be in there, like Bruce meeting with Gordon for the first time in 8 years, the idea of the 8 year gap in general (had they kept the concept but played it up differently, I might have actually loved it), Bane vs. Batman, etc. etc. I was hopeful for but it didn't sit right with me. So it's not, "ooooooh you don't like it because it's not what you wanted". No, it's I don't like it because I don't think it's good.


Last edited by milost; 08-10-2013 at 07:08 PM.
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