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Old 08-10-2013, 10:53 PM   #69
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 80
Default Re: Lol...if i didn´t know the critics and GA´s score for this movie...

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
Exactly, it's not like he packed up his bags and "decided" to be a recluse after that moment. He slid into a state of depression when he was rendered completely impotent in his efforts to be useful to society and save the world. In fact it has to be that he spent a significant amount of time on the energy project so it's like all that time and work ends up going to waste. Wouldn't make sense it he got so depressed after one month of work. After five years spent, it's a lot harder to be like "Alright that didn't work out, time to find another project!". That's also 5 years of having something to focus besides his own demons...once that's taken away, the demons come back in full force. Nothing about that setup got an "umm what" from people when I was watching the film.
As I've said in my long post (just for the record, not because you should've noticed that one line ), yes, it all "makes sense", and can be made to make even more sense with a proper fanfic interquel - logically, psychologically, whatever.
It just FEELS JARRING due to simply being thrown at the audience *instead* of paying off the awesome set-ups from the previous movie.

Had they shot such an interquel, his gradual slip into depression, the transition from the pumped-and-ready TDK mood to "nothing to do, well let's at least try clean energy globe, ehhh **** it all", who knows? Could've been an awesome "subversive" piece or something. But they didn't, so it feels weird and lazy.

Yes, it isn't objectively a problem if the sequel to a movie tries to be its own thing to a degree, TDK also leaves parts of BB hanging in favor of its own stuff after all (I guess it's appreciated more for "upping" the game as a result, instead of being disappointing), and I'm not saying you can't like it that way - but just explainin'

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
The 8 years just gave the story a sense of heft and history that was necessary IMO. If you pick up the events where nothing has changed in the aftermath of TDK, that to me is the real copout, because it'd be shying away from allowing the ending of TDK to have the impact that it surely deserved as one of the greatest endings to an action movie this side of Terminator 2.
Yeeaaa... bad comparison, though. T2 was a completely different kind of ending - a clear victory (over its own threat as well as the looming doom from its predecessor that had kind of been taken for granted until that point), followed by a comforting, hopeful closing statement with JUST a little bit of dark worry underneath.

TDK, on the other hand, is a much more cliffhangery one. They've saved the city's best role model and thus defied the Joker's goal, but is it really over? The mobsters are kind of gone, but only half, and that arc isn't really brought to the end. The city's still dirty, full of corruption, and while you can easily picture how it eventually evolved from that into the idyllic circumstances 8 years later... showing some of that would've been real neat
Glossing over it like that, on the other hand, is lame. Come on, the whole series had been about bringing down the mob, is casually killing two/three mob bosses really gonna be the big climax? No other replacements, no other conveniently ethnic organizations? They didn't show the Hispanic mafia, surely those must've been around as well, oh god can we cut that out??

So yea... don't show how "nothing's changed", show how it is changing! No need to pick up right after TDK either, but there's kind of a long way from that to "that story arc ended off-screen and then another began, also off-screen, thx".
You're saying it gives it more "weight"? Well, the weight of TDK's ending was how the hope for improvement had been saved, but there was still some kind of path of trials and tribulations ahead, and Batman's path had just become even more difficult (translation: exciting) - skipping over that straight to the idyllic happy ending, and transforming the "more difficult for Batman" into "more boring for Bruce" takes away that weight imo.

That's why Terminator 3 is so bad, it just undoes the ending immediately and says "nope, doesn't matter, Judgment Day still happens".
So what? T2 "subverted" the dark ending from the first movie, now T3 subverts this one. I do think T3 was inferior, but mainly due to the smaller aspects of its execution and not because "it undid the theme from T2, man". Hey, that dark Mad Max road from T2's ending shot kind of set a dark mood, didn't it, and now "omg you can't change what's coming after all, and it's happning TODAY!".
How is that not exciting? I think they just should've done that a bit differently, focused less on the silly "fate Judgment Day" angle and more on something like "you can't stop humanity from constructing its own doom", or maybe a subversive "there's always something you overlook... should've kept on looking!", but the basic idea? Fiiiine.

The ending of TDK was hard-earned, bittersweet "victory" of sorts, so Gotham had to get better or else the ending immediately feels cheapened and not as important as it was made out to be.
Again - what it was, was the BEGINNING of victory, at a tangible cost, not its happy conclusion and resulting boredom. The sequel kind of forgot that, though.
Whatever was about to happen in the aftermath, i.e. the continuing struggles toward the now closer victory, seemed much more exciting than "hey, everything's well now" - and apparently, *that* ended up being not as important as it felt back then

To make another hackneyed trilogy comparison... imagine, Lord of the Rings, Sam saves Frodo from the tower, the Orcs make path for them, and then, eh, the rest is easy! Next movie all is well in Middle Earth, Sauron died or what did you expect, and some new thing comes along that'll be the plot now! Meh?

Yes, in the end the film ends up serving as a deconstruction of TDK's ending, but with the time jump it still allows TDK's ending to be an 8 year victory.

I'm sorry you see it as a "disgusting" waste of opportunity milost, but to be honest...I was never terribly interested in a movie about Batman as a fugitive. It just seemed kind of silly to me that Batman would invite that kind of heat on himself while trying to do his job.
Well, that'd be a screw-up by TDK then, not the alternative threequel we're discussing here, wouldn't it?
Yea, people have complained about that one often enough, but then if you're one of them, why do you call it the "bestest ending ever"? If that's what you think, your thesis should be about how TDKR "rectified" that little misstep (can't undo that, but can diminish the effect of it :d) by focusing on Dent's side of the coin but giving Batman's exile as little screentime and attention as possible - not how it "gave weight" and honored that awesome ending by acknowledging its victory

I'd feel no sympathy for him because he invited that on himself and chose to lie to Gotham for the sake of giving them a "white knight", and for what?
Um, for the peace and fruitcakes that you rave about in TDKR, perhaps?
The need to preserve Harvey's image seems pretty straightforward imo - if there's any problems with the logic, it's Batman taking the fall for him, but that's the MOVIE's misstep / artistic license with making sense, not Bruce's! Within the confines of the story, he's doing the only right thing.

With the way TDKR is setup, I actually do feel sorry for him. Maybe some people aren't comfortable feeling sorry for Bruce like that, I don't know. But it worked for me, I was totally invested from the first moment he limps on screen.
Felt sorry for him when Rachel died, that was one well done - not so much here, as he
a) had amusing recluse mannerisms, and
b) the reason for his "sadness", even if it "makes sense", was kind of glossed over in a few lines and came out of nowhere as far as the narrative structure is concerned.
Rooting for him to go out there again? That sure, but not "feeling sorry" - couldn't relate to it, only felt alienated.

Besides, why are you saying the TDK version was supposed to make you feel "sorry"? It was supposed to make you feel pumped and excited, distressed, but definitely not "sorry". And now we got sorry

Compare Jack Bauer - each time we see him sad/retired the next season, it's after he did the job in the previous one, and then collapsed in tears. That one worked - this one less so.


Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
Um, a lot of people who have argued that he should have been active and evading the police at the start of the movie say that.

As far as being hunted while inactive...who's to say there wasn't an investigation that led nowhere in 8 years? They don't know who Batman is, they don't have any leads, he could have fled the country by that point for all they know.
Sure there was, but it's not terribly exciting - especially when happening off-screen.

And besides, it's not like we didn't get an EPIC chase scene with the entire GCPD pursuing Batman over other more dangerous perps, so it's not like bringing him in wasn't shown to be a priority.
We did, and it was awesome - in fact, kind of a bright spot for Batman in that movie as he kind of sucked in the rest
I wish there'd been more of "Batman is awesome and badass, but ****ing Bane, man" and less of the "he's retired and out of shape, shmeh" that ended up being the movie's central theme.

With that said, we're talking more about the "hunted in the aftermath of TDK, still doing his thing... but hunted, now, in the shadows, helping them all while being hunted by them... in the shadows", and that vibe is kind lost here - everything peaceful for 8 years, now he suddenly REappears, and that mainly because there's some kind of conspiracy against him.
We needed that hunting thing then... when the times were still hot. It doesn't matter now - cause everything's already happened

But I digress, yea it was still badass.

milost,'s a year later. I get that this movie crushed your soul and all, but I feel like we should be past the point of wall of text posts saying the same stuff we were saying months ago. Brevity is your friend, there's no way I'm gonna get sucked into multi-quote battle with you at this point.
Oops... well it ain't mine and this is all new and exciting to me, so

Last edited by justpassinby; 08-13-2013 at 06:35 PM.
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