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Old 08-12-2013, 06:46 PM   #92
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 80
Default Re: Lol...if i didn´t know the critics and GA´s score for this movie...

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
As I've told milost recently, I'm gonna get into a multiquote battle. I just have to make that clear now, because I'm much less interested in trying to prove anyone "wrong" point by point than I am merely trying to voice my own views on the movie in as concise a way as that maybe, just maybe people will stop feeling the need to perform tedious biopsies on this movie in an attempt to prove something and will realize that it's all just opinion. The point by point route is a tennis match that can go on forever, so if dissecting my posts in such a way makes you feel like you've got the upper all means, continue doing it.
1) Your general demeanor is way too argumentative, defensive, and passive-aggressive in order to pass for a "just speaking my mind outside of silly debate context".
2) Multi-quotes =/= wanting to win/being less concise. It's just that when you respond to something that has multiple points in it (and those consisting of more individual elements themselves), one very practical way to deal with that properly is... breaking it down.
People claimiing how paragraph-by-paragraph debating makes it all worse and confusing, losing the larger points out of sight... lol on the contrary. And if those paragraphs add up to that larger point, which isn't always there... no worries, that's hard to go unnoticed, and then there's a train of thought running through the responses as well
3) The realm we're generally breathing in here is "demonstrable opinions". Pure sentiments like "I dig this because it made me feel this" are being shared on some other thread, some other forum - right now, all these recent debates about TDKR are about points, arguments, argued evaluations of such, and using facts such as backstage info for proof / determining the whole thesis. Yes, there's a strong subjective component to it (as I said in those comments that changed your life), but a great deal of tangible objectivity as well.

Why? Because you lay claim to it - with stuff like "oh god now you convinced me", as well as generally using objectivey arguments in your posts.
No need to backtrack now

Bottom line, we're back to arguing that the Nolans misunderstood their own movie and that's just not something that I buy for a second.
Meh, it happens. Maybe he understood it while making it, but then lost the thread afterwards?
Of course you could also argue that he didn't at all - but then I think to have some rather solid reasons for concluding he did, so if you wanna challenge it, pure subjectivity won't do... and is out of place anyway, cause ****'s getting tangible.
I don't have any problems with you liking every frame of Rises for whatever personal reasons/tastes, you know - after all I'd be a total douche if I did

And the assumption that a movie more closely tied into the aftermath Knight would've been inherently better is nothing more than just assumption and an opinion. Not one I necessarily agree with.
Um actually a bit more than that - what it is is a very stupid, fallacious argument. Good thing I never made it then
Yes, the general gist of what I (and others here) have been saying does go in that direction, but only for the reason that this "aftermath" was something TDK had set up, and also would've been a natural way of paying that off.

Not because of some "inherent" ******** - and I never said that there couldn't have been a way of doing that with the time gap (heck, one aspect is easy - have the Dent reveal play a bigger/central role in inducing the revolution ), think along the lines of 24, 4th season, or that a subversive, deconstructive thing couldn't have worked if it had been differently (as well as decisive and unapologetic about being that)... merely that it didn't succeed the way it was, and that the whole "let down DK" is the area where the engine rattling mainly seems to come from.

I do however kind of agree that the first two form a sort of duology, with the third film coming in as its own thing while being a conclusion to those movies. The way it blends elements of the first two (very different) movies together makes it all come together in a very classic trilogy sort of way for me though.
That's the thing though - I don't see how it "concludes" those movies in any way except finishing Bats' career (although it technially already "ended" in/after DK didn't it - but this time seems kind of more decisive about it, especially since this time it's meant that way ); everything else it concludes (=actually pays off) seems to have been set up in the same movie, and the flashbacks and references really do seem to be the main thing that creates this connection.

Again, not saying it's a bad thing in itself - heck, if you're gonna have this kind of "distant follow-up", why not connect it that way to what came before, kind of reinforcing that "it's all in the past / memories now" angle inherent to such a concept? Just not crazy about the specifics of it

Anyway justpassinby, you strike me as a "writer type" seeing as you referenced tvtropes.
What. is for writers - TV Tropes is analysis / mainstream nerd culture, in other words what we have here

So hey, I respect your views and I'm sorry if I was treating you like a troll earlier...though you kind of make it hard to tell for sure sometimes. But I want to address one thing you said...about how TDKR works as you're watching but only leaves you disappointed after. No, see that's not how it was at all for me. It had thoroughly convinced me of the worth of the story that they chose to tell, so by the time it was all said and done, worrying about how the setup of the movie followed the conclusion of TDK was one of the furthest things from my mind. Though, I still felt like the movie overall was an appropriate follow-up and trilogy capper. Or "optional" trilogy capper if you will.
Fair enough. Me, I might've just been convinced had it told its own story better, but that's another topic. Should you decide to continue discussing the "follow-up" bit, feel free to post anytime

Last edited by justpassinby; 08-12-2013 at 08:33 PM.
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