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Old 08-29-2013, 06:43 PM   #66
Farren
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Default Re: the TIMELINE thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Jim View Post
I just can't understand how some feel that we should just discount a whole website that has been set up for the sole purpose of promoting this movie. They created this Trask website to give us some information about what is in the movie, so shouldn't we take what's on that site at face value? This site is not a red herring, it's a promotional piece to give us information.
I'm with you. I don't think we have to take the viral marketing as film canon, but we should at least consider the possibility that it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Jim View Post
Now, as far as timeline stories go, people often forget that when you have a time loop story (like Terminator) it wasn't always that way. What I mean is this...

In Terminator the machines took over, man fought, and the machines sent a Terminator back in time to stop the birth of the leader. Man sent one of their own back to stop the Terminator. But the man they sent back turns out to be the father of the leader that the machines were trying to stop.

This scenerio is actually impossible, and let me explain why...

The very first time the timeline played out there couldn't have been a John Connor. Sarah only became what she was because of the Terminator and without the Terminator going back to kill John he never would have been born. In other words, in the very first interation of this timeline there couldn't have been a John Connors so the Terminator was never sent back so John was never born. So effectively the whole premise of Terminator is impossible!!!

Am I making anyone's brain hurt?

In the Terminator it's the one timeline method that they try to use.

Now what's good is that the X-Men universe has never created an impossible timeline situation like what you have in Terminator. See in DOFP and any other timeline X-story, it's something changing the past to create a new future. In Terminator it was the future, crating a new past, which creates the future which counldn't have happened without itself. Just doesn't work!

Makes much more sense to take a robot like Nimrod and have it send itself back to change the past which changes the future.

My point is that in any timeline story (like Looper for example) you have the first timeline (the original) where things played out as normal, then you have something from the future change the past that creates either a new reality or changes the existing one. If it's a new reality then the question is whether the original ceases to exist or just keeps on trucking on. Personally I have always liked the stories that has something from the future go back in time and change the past and boom, everything alters around those in the present at the time when the things goes back in time, showing the readers/audience that you have a whole new reality because of the change made to the past!
Now here's where I think I disagree a bit.

I actually think Terminator (looking at is as a standalone film) works perfectly fine given it's own interpretation of time travel. I completely understand where your thinking is at, because I used to get stuck on the same thing with Terminator: the idea that there was an original timeline where there was no John Connor because the Terminator and Reese hadn't been sent back yet.

But the problem is that you're looking at this from the point of view of the time travelers, not the timeline itself. In 1984 Kyle Reese appears from the future and fathers John Connor. From Reese's pov he has already been sent back in time, but from the timeline's pov he hasn't been, so it's fine that John Connor hasn't been born yet.

This plot is actually pretty consistent with the current theories of time travel. Not that is HAS to be -- I have no problem with different ideas about time travel, and like you, I like the notion that the past can be changed. It makes for a lot less cynical storytelling. But The Terminator still works, both by it's own internal logic and by what current theoretical physics thinks.

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