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Old 09-08-2013, 12:27 AM   #80
Elevator Man
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Default Re: Hans Zimmers: Scoring Bats vs Supes AND Batman?

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Originally Posted by Kevin Smith View Post


Danny Elfman Batman score > Anything Hans Zimmer's done.

John Williams Superman score > Anything Hans Zimmer's done.

John Williams > Danny Elfman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hans Zimmer.

Truth.

(Even Elfman's 30 second Batman animated series end credits sequence is BRILLIANT, catchy, memorable, iconic, and immediately associatable with Batman, Zimmer has NOTHING on this - that Elfman score is the STUFF OF SUPERHEROES)





Yep. The scores are boring and mundane. Begins' end credits is pretty good, and maybe one or two tracks on his MOS work, but other than that he is TERRIBLE. That said, the stuff I heard of his in TASM2 trailer sounded very good (but Zimmer only gets about a fourth of the credit for that as he did not devise the original score himself - I somehow doubt the Hans Zimmer of today is even capable of conceiving such a score), but it's just a retooling of James Horner's soundtrack, which I thought was good on its own (although I prefer the Elfman score, but I love Horner's work), but the retooling sounds EPIC. I wish they'd just let him do the Williams theme and the Elfman theme for Superman and Batman but "retool" them like that. That would be brilliant, and he could do a few original bits. But you can't mess with perfection, it's okay for Superman to have a theme associated with him that spans generations, Batman as well - and those themes are the Williams and Elfman scores, easily.
I've been keeping coy about Zimmer scoring TAS-M2. Tbh, I'm disappointed b/c I too enjoyed what Horner came up with for the last film. And wish he had returned instead. I'll pass judgement whenever I see the film and hear the score, but I'm tired of Zimmer scoring this and that movie. He's already got "Interstellar" next year, Why does he need to score a Spiderman sequel? I guess he likes sloppy seconds.

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Why the creators have their heads in their asses with this is beyond me.
B/c TPTB want that "Epic Zimmer sound' in their big budget summer blockbusters. Some composers are even forced to emulate Zimmer's techniques for these type of films.

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And I do like some of Zimmer's stuff, and the soundtracks of his I like are always what I HOPE we get for with him when he is announced for superhero projects, but never what he delivers, which is why I say keep him off these things.
Even though a lot f people up here believe I hate Zimmer with a passion. And I really don't. I'm just not a fan of his superhero scores. I enjoy and own a few of his scores like Gladiator, which made me take notice of him, Black Rain, Hannibal, Sherlock Holmes, The Da Vinci Code, Angels & Demons and a few others. The main problem I have with him scoring these superhero movies is that he doesn't really get out of his comfort zone. Instead of adjusting his music to fit Batman's style he writes a score that's comfortable in his own style and techniques. Theres not much nuance between his Batman scores and some of his current (or even past) action scores.

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here are some works of Zimmer I really liked and was hoping his work on Superman and batman would be more like:


Imagine something like this playing in MOS when the doors fling open and Superman steps out for the first time to take flight. How epic would that have been? (THAT is the kind of movie I was HOPING to have gotten with MOS, BTW):

(play from the 3:12 mark)

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


http://youtu.be/FtfKlmpb7_w?t=3m12s
I have never seen Prince Of Egypt or heard Zimmer's score to it, but I've heard good things about it. That piece sounds very inspiring and promising. And it sort of reminds me of Goldsmith's theme from "The Mummy(1999)". I agree I believe Hans can write a great Batman or Superman score. It's just those films have wasted his talents b/c the directors haven't given him to be creative, imo. Instead they want the same generic droning sound. Not surprising b/c I personally believe Nolan and Snyder don't quite understand film music. They seem to rather understand sound design. Heck Nolan has Zimmer scoring to the script instead of the movie. What sense does that make? It's FILM scoring not script scoring! I think Nolan is a great filmmaker but his approach to film music in his movies boggles my mind.


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And this is easily one of his best, and one of my favorite pieces of music ever written - complete with trumpets and all sorts of epic sounds, hummable and instantly recognizable, PERFECT for a superhero type movie, something I REALLY wish Zimmer would take a page from when working on his Superman and Batman films:

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:



Here's another favorite of mine from Zimmer:

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(1:30 and on is very catchy and hummable, IMO)


I also enjoyed Zimmer's work here:

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I've never heard or seen Muppets Treasure Island. Sounds like a fun swashbuckling adventure score. I wouldn't be surprised if that's better than each of his Pirates scores. And eventhough Crimson Tide is a riveting movie with strong performances from Denzel and Hackman. That score was always the first thing that pops in my head when I think about that movie. I'm going to be honest right now, but the MV/RC/ Zimmer sound was at it's peak in the 90s with Speed, Bad Boys, Con Air, etc. Today it's gotten stale and dull. And eventhough that style works in Bay's and Bruckheimer's movies (especially in the 90s) it doesn't belong in a Batman, Superman, or any other superhero movie for that matter, imho.

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I have no doubt in my mind that Zimmer COULD deliver if he WANTED to do so and build and epic sounding, memorable superhero soundtrack, but he has chosen not to do so for whatever reason yet. I wish we would get something from him like the examples I have posted but sadly just about all of his work in superhero films is NOTHING like that and has been really, really sub par and flat, IMO. So with that in mind, unless he is going to bring his A game, I would rather he not score the films at all. Period.
I agree. I honestly believe Nolan and Snyder are holding him back from any creativity. It's like they're micromanaging him and his music. So it could be the way they want it to sound. Instead of it serving the film. Sadly, Zimmer doesn't seem to have a problem with that either.

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Originally Posted by TheFlamingCoco View Post
Kung Fu Panda had John Powell do a chunk of it. As for TDKR, some of the music was actually better than the collabs with JNH, but there was less of a diversity of themes.
I disagree about Rises. That score was really lacking any heart to me. I always believed JNH found the heart of the previous two films through his music more than Hans did. With his absence it was severly lacking emotionally for me. It's easily the weakest score of TDKT.

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HZ reminds me of a certain actress who CAN act, but doesn't always choose to do so. I'm not saying he's lazy. On the contrary, I think he's overworked and has forgotten what he is really capable of doing.
Yeah I somewhat agree. Just his superhero scores aren't the best examples of why he's a great composer, imho.


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And if you think I'm a hater, I think he's done consistently good work up to 2003. I think some of the music for "The Bible" is good, and "It's Complicated" has a good score, though that's also a collab with Heitor Pereira (who does very good acoustic work).
I believe you. I just wish people up here would stop calling me a hater just b/c I'm not a fan of his superhero scores (TDKT & MOS). Ilike plenty ofother Zimmer scores. I'm actually curious about upcoming Rush score. I believe these days that Ron Howard seems to get the best out of him.

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Sherlock Holmes has some good music, but even that gets reduntant in places.
I enjoyed his first SH score. Haven't heard the score or even seen the second film yet. It never felt redundant to me. I love "Psychological Recovery... 6 Months". Now that is how you score an 18 minute climax. The music in that climax was better than the music he supplied for the climax's of TDKT and MOS, imho. The reason I say that b/c that particular cue always grabs my attention and am never bored by it. No matter how many times I listen to it I never tire of it and it never drags to me. And that's an 18 minute or so track. Now that 16 minute "A Dark Knight" track from TDK was redundant, imho. It's just the same theme on loop for ten minutes.

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Guichinno can definitely pull off action scores better, IMHO. And so can Powell, I think.
Indeed. I enjoyed Giacchino's Mission Impossible -Ghost Protocol very much.


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Powell adapting Zimmer's themes would be even better at this point. I'm drooling for a John Powell Superman score.
I would love to hear a Powell Superman score, but it's not going to happen.


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Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog View Post
Zimmer's theme is less memorable than Williams', but much more fitting for the Man of Steel and much more affecting.

Memorable =/= better

Joker interrogation scene score >>>> anything that Elfman did in the Burton films.
I don't think so."Main Title", "Batman To The Rescue", "Descent Into Mystery", "Childhood Remembered","Charge of the Batmobie", "Birth Of The Penguin/ Main Title", Kitty Party/Selina Transforms" screw it both of Elfman's Batman scores are in a category of its own. An each blow TDKT scores out ofthe water, imho. B89 "Main Title" and "Finale" alone are better than TDKT scores combined, imho. I don't know how the music from that interrogation scene in TDK, which was just the one/two note Joker motif blaring in the background is better than anything Elfman did in both Batman movies.

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Originally Posted by DKDetective View Post
That was Shirley Walker, who I personally believe is the best Batman composer of all time. Sure, originally, she took what Elfman did for the Batman theme and built off of it for the origional opening and closing credits sequences for BTAS, but when she came up with her own Batman theme later on, it is bar none, the greatest Batman theme of all time. Heroic and triumphant, yet also gothic and tragic.

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


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Actually Elfman did write the opening and end credits of B:TAS and is credited for it. After all that is his own theme he's adapting. Walker most likely conducted it. Anyways I agree with you for the most part, but I believe Elfman and the late great Walker are the King and Queen of Batman scores. And those moments you posted are indeed brilliant. Both scenes and music. Really reflects the Bruce's sacrifices and consequences of being Batman, imo.

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