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Old 10-06-2013, 01:41 PM   #14
Axl Van Sixx
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Default Re: Team Bats or Team Supes / Team Clark or Team Bruce

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shield View Post
And a Man of Steel that speaks his mind more. I'm over the strong silent type they've gone for in the last two movies. They did better this last time but they waited waaay too long before they let him speak.
Damn straight. MOS was leagues better than SR, but both had this odd problem of minimizing the amount of lines they give Superman. My own thinking is that this is actually a testament to the enormity of the character and his legacy, which makes it harder for a writer to sit down and think, "What does this guy actually say?" It's a little like trying to write the character of God, whom even John Milton found it difficult to make interesting.

I may prefer Superman over Batman, but I definitely don't envy writers of the former, because it really is hard to create realistic challenges to such an omnipotent character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator Pleasury View Post
And that's why I prefer Batman. He knows how people are, but he wants them to not harm each other anyways. Superman still lives in this bubble where good and evil are absolutes, like in fairy tales.
Arguably, that was something Goyer and Snyder were trying to challenge with their controversial ending to MOS, which intentionally challenged Superman's moral beliefs and dabbled in shades of grey. It's interesting how people reacted to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
Sigh. That's a tough call.

While Superman is the hero we'd all like to be, all-powerful and always doing the right thing, and always flying off into the sunset with a smile
to the audience, Batman's probably a better reflection of what people
are like, flawed and a bit messed up inside.

If I had my choice, I'd be Superman in a heartbeat. yeah, it'd be tough
being at the top, and having all that self-imposed responsibility, but then after a tough day you can just fly to the moon or go sit on top of Mount Everest for a break.


Although I've been a batfan since I first saw that cheesy TV show as a little kid, I lean toward team Clark, just cause he's a nice guy who
looks after his mom, despite being an alien, with god-like powers - but mostly because, as you said, he's got those powers and doesn't use them to conquer humanity, or get rich and not give a ****, but instead takes on the thankless task of protecting us, of always doing the right thing.

When I was a kid, back in the 80's, I was very moved by SM IV: Quest for Peace, it was a terribly, really-terribly executed film, but the idea that a little kid wakes up one day, sees the insanity of the cold war, and says "Hey, why don't we ask Superman to save us." A bit like praying to Jesus
really (which builds on your messiah comment) - I believe God works in mysterious ways, but the beauty of Superman, is that you see a god getting his hands dirty and helping out in person.

Anyway, despite it's enormous flaws, the film was a great idea -and very moving, heartening that Superman was such a great guy that he would make the effort, and tragic, that even a god couldn't protect us from our own stupidity.

I really enjoyed the portrayal of Clark Kent/Kal-El in Man of Steel (okay, I loved Man of Steel, there I said it. And I was a huge fan of the Reeve movies). I thought that the slightly less boy-scoutish, more serious Superman was a better reflection of the times we live in. Sure, Clark frowns a lot, but he carries a heavy load.

However, having said that, here's some arguments for Team Batman:

- "I'm Batman" said in a gravelly voice is always going to sound cooler
than "I'm Superman."

- Batman has no super-powers, which means that any of us (provided we
had a genius intellect, mad ninja skills, and billions of dollars of disposable income) could be Batman.
this makes his triumphs, especially over Superhuman menaces,
much more meaningful.

- Batman has billions of dollars and instead of living it up large and enjoying himself, he tries to make society better....although maybe he could do it by creating more jobs and eliminating unemployment in Gotham city, rather than prowling the streets bashing the crap out of
criminals.

Really, he's punishing himself as much as the criminal underworld.
He could just take his wealth and intellect and become another Lex
Luthor, but doesn't (kind of like Supers and his powers).

- guilt, regret and obsession are part of being human. Batman's mortal and has all of our human failings, which make him a more relatable character (well except for the genius, billionaire ninja part). Potentially, Superman is immortal (well functionally immortal) which means his stories can go on forever -sooner or later Batman's clock has to run out, and we've seen some terrific endings, Miller's DKR (and I loved Nolan's TDKR). I liked All-Star Superman, but it didn't have quite the same resonance as DKR.

- Batman is always one step ahead of his enemies (in the comics anyway)

- Batman has a cool car !

Despite what other people have said, I like your thread ! I did a variation of it a while back, "Batman vs Superman, who will win ? who should win?" in the context of the upcoming film.

Threads like this get all kinds of emotional and strongly-held opinions out
into the open, which is what forums are meant to be about. Cheers.
Great post! I saw that other thread you mentioned when I was checking to see if there were any "who do you prefer" threads, but I'm glad you like the new one. Those are some great pro-Batman arguments you offered.

The bolded part is one of the reasons it's easier for me to be more critical of Batman, but I will say that while the Nolan movies had some reactionary elements, you have to give them credit for at least giving lip service to that issue. I think of lines from Batman Begins like "The first time I stole so that I wouldn't starve, I lost many assumptions about the simple nature of right and wrong".

I have to say, I am stunned by the results of this thread so far. The whole reason I originally created it was out of a sad acceptance that Batman was now the more popular character than Superman for the general public, and that the choice by Warner Bros. to bring him into the MOS sequel was a de facto recognition of this. The fact that Batman has so dominated the BvS board makes it doubly surprising to me that Superman seems to be doing so well in this thread.

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