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Old 10-17-2013, 11:27 PM   #923
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
I'm assuming you're referring to the Hotel scene in Batman Begins, where Rachel is only upset that Bruce is seemingly doing shallow things while Gotham needs to be fixed.
Don't tell me you forgot the, "Oh BROTHER" look on Rachel's face when Bruce shows up in that helicopter with the two models at the penthouse fundraiser. She already knows he's Batman at that point - she's just not impressed with his theatrics.

Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
Rachel lectured him because, a lot of the time Bruce was doing questionable things: Wanting to kill Joe Chill. Seemingly wasting his life buying hotels and riding around with random chicks. Wanting to turn himself in to end Joker's crime spree, which was not a surefire plan in the least bit. Alot of what she did WAS calling Bruce out on some of his BS.

Rachel is a badly executed character, but I can't act like Rachel was some harpy who demanded that Bruce change. After finding out he was Batman, she tells Bruce that Thomas would be proud of him. The one truly crappy thing Rachel does is be wishy washy in regards to her relationship with both Bruce and Dent throughout the movie.
She told Bruce that she couldn't be with him until he wasn't Batman anymore. I'd say that's wanting him to change, or at least putting a conditional on things. That's certainly not accepting who he is, which one HAS to do to be in a healthy relationship.

And I don't think she was a harpy, either. She cared for him, and in the end, knew that she wasn't right for him anyway and tried to be honest about that once her decision was final. (Thanks Alfred )

Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
It's funny that you say Selina wanted him to see her side, because she never really makes an effort to see his, IMO...especially in regards to his number one rule.
But she did. She stopped thinking of herself and came back to help him save Gotham. (I can just imagine her cursing him under her breath as she turns the Batpod around at the tunnel. )

Up until then, she did what she reasonably could to help others, but if she was actually in danger, she was outta there. It was always about looking out for number one, and thanks to Bruce, it wasn't anymore.

And besides, not killing isn't exactly Batman's "number one" rule. It's his one rule that he can't break in his line of work, but he's never said it was the first one he'd ever consider. I'd argue that he's a rescuer above all - when someone's life is in immediate danger, he rescues them instead of going after the bad guy.

Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
Honestly, Rachel showed a better understanding of Bruce than Selina did, and I think Bruce could've ended up with either one depending on circumstance. I still think that because of the impact Rachel had on his life, she is pretty much the love of this version of Batman's life.
Well, duh, Rachel knew him longer. But she just because she understood him better at that point in time, doesn't mean that she accepted him better. At its root, a relationship isn't about understanding, it's about acceptance.

Originally Posted by The Batman View Post
^ That's my main thing...I don't think the way their relationship developed in TDKR merits all this "She's his soulmate" talk.
I don't believe in soulmates. But I certainly think Selina's life path in TDKR matched up much better with Bruce's life path, than Rachel's ever did.

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