Thread: "Joyless" ?
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Old 10-20-2013, 09:07 AM   #16
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Default Re: "Joyless" ?

Originally Posted by smallville fan View Post
1) What I meant was the general tone of the Donner films. I like to see happy stuff from time to time with Superman, but it shouldn't be "unrealistically happy" to the point where it feels like a Superfriends cartoon. That's the general impression I felt those silly critics wanted.
Well you'll never know what they wanted, so why not converse with us? But that doesn't change the fact that humour is not a synonym for joy.

For example, I think The Dark Knight Rises is a joyful film, but the film takes itself deathly serious with it's morose theme of a man having his life dominated by pain. But there are great character moments dispersed throughout it with Selina, Alfred, Bruce himself as well as the ending. It's even more joyful because of how bad a position all the characters are in the beginning of the film, Gordon is living a lie, Bruce is defeated, Selina is on the run, Alfred is watching his son waste away etc, but none of that sounds joyful.

2) I like All-Star Superman as well but I don't think this Superman's quite at that point yet. Heck, I don't believe it should even be brought up in comparison with an origin story. The story is about a happy ending for Superman when all the battles have been fought and all the songs have been sung as they say. I mean it resolves the long standing conflict of Superman vs Lex Luthor.
The specific content doesn't matter at all, it's the context and general content, but in any case, how about Superman and the Man of Steel, Superman: Birthright? Both are still celebrations of all facets of the character, and origin tales for a simpler analogy.

As for All-Star, Superman comforting Regan, who is about to commit suicide, that doesn't hinge on the main plot. Clark playing with Krypto on the Kent farm doesn't hinge on the main plot. Superman visiting sick children and giving them hope doesn't hinge on the main plot. Having a date with Lois, trusting Jimmy with something that can kill him, saving two of his ancestors, a married couple, by giving them the Phantom Zone. All great character moments, all of them contained within what could only be described as a sombre story, all of them joyful.

3) Batman being joyful about the mission?...I think not. There's nothing cool about always having to go out and take out the bad guys. It's a responsibility for Batman. Bruce Wayne doesn't even like living the Billionaire playboy life, he'd rather be out in Gotham fighting crime as Batman's the real identity.
It doesn't matter what you think, I never stated an opinion, I stated a fact (which wasn't that the mission was joyous, but who he is, both in and out of the public eye). For the past decade Batman's been a well adjusted adult, and from the 40's-80's it was the same, more of Batman's history, as well as his most successful periods have been about a "relatively" well adjusted Bruce Wayne. Sure, he might consider being Bruce Wayne a chore, but it's one that he's happy to do.

4) Clark does indeed want to be Superman, but all those sacrifices be it from his loved ones or a part of his soul after snapping Zod's neck help shape him to be the man he's destined to be and to a small degree influence his choice as he realizes that being a hero is his purpose.
None of Clark's family should be making sacrifices for him to be Superman. That's the whole point of Superman, it's Clark's choice to turn devote his life to being Superman and turning Clark Kent into a "nobody".

5) I was referring to his childhood growing up as well as the continuous facade he has to use when he's not wearing the costume as well as some moments when he's with Lois. I was further debunking some silly idea that being Superman and having his life is "Super-Duper-Ultra-Happy Go Lucky" as what the critics perceive Superman to be.
That's not what you said though. You said knowing he wasn't human, which he didn't know until he was 33. Also, you still don't know what critics meant unless you ask them directly, stop making assumptions.

6) I've felt I've read all the relevant comics needed.(Earth One especially)
Keep thinking that, it won't make you right. Also Earth One is not a comic book, and piss poor average anyway. If you want something relevant, try drawing from all eras of Superman's history, like:

All-Star Superman
Superman and the Men of Steel through to Superman and the Fiend From Dimension 5
Kingdom Come
Final Crisis: Superman Beyond
JLA v3
Superman: Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?
Superman: For the Man who has Everything
Superman: Last Son
Superman: Greatest Stories Ever Told
Must There Be a Superman?
What's So Funny About Truth, Justice and the American Way?
Up, Up and Away
Superman: For All Seasons
Superman: Secret Identity

Last edited by Llama_Shepherd; 10-20-2013 at 09:20 AM.
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