Thread: "Joyless" ?
View Single Post
Old 10-21-2013, 05:54 AM   #37
Clark Kent > Superman
hopefuldreamer's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: South West, UK
Posts: 11,848
Default Re: "Joyless" ?

Originally Posted by smallville fan View Post
What I meant was if you don't like the way in which Goyer wanted to tell it, don't bother investing in the sequel.

I liked Superman Earth One. Does anyone have a problem with that?
I'm not invested in the sequel even a 10th as much as I was MOS.

Doesn't mean that if a poster creates a thread discussion criticisms about the film being joyless, I can't contribute my thoughts.

Originally Posted by smallville fan View Post
I liked the presentation of Clark Kent as a lost soul searching for his purpose. Believe it or not, but I could relate to that and I'm glad we saw that on the big screen.
Every person on the planet is searching for their purpose at some point in their life, so yeah, it's an easy way in. But that's the point. It's easy, lazy writing. It's just them making the character more like all the other popular teen characters out there (Earth One was pretty much designed for a teenage audience).

I was hoping that in this film we would see more of Superman's bigger picture, incorporate more of what the character truly has been over the years... not just what they've been trying to turn him into lately.

Because it's not an improvement IMO, to have him not wanting to be a hero. To have his heroics be intended by Jor-el. To have him only saving people when danger happens right in front of him or because of him.

Originally Posted by CGHulk View Post
I think that because the previous incarnations of Superman were more light hearted, this film being more dramatic is off setting the fans who are thinking that this incarnation is to dark or joyless. This film is enjoyable not joyful in the sense of light heartedness, that's the difference! I like a more lighthearted Superman film but this new one is good. Superman can be done more seriously/dramatically and still be enjoyable.
As i've said before, I found TDK trilogy to be less joyless than this. Because there were moments that truly showed the good in the human spirit. There were moments where a character really proved himself, or really learned something that instills the audience with hope.

And because, at it's heart, it's about a man seeing the suffering and injustice in the world and deciding he simply can't sit by and let it just happen anymore.

He CHOOSES to become a hero in order to try to change things, and he works hard and sacrifices much to get there.

That, to me, is joyful.

Originally Posted by Llama_Shepherd View Post
So, yeah, Superman: Earth One I is still pretty crap, but it's not really even an origin, it doesn't cover why Clark wants to be Superman (even worse considering in it, and Man of Steel, Clark has no choice in the matter, he's forced into it) just how.
Exactly. There is literally no attempt to show how people suffer needlessly in the world because of injustice, and how much it upsets Clark. There is no mention of the world having any problems other than alien invasion and the occasional accident.

They just didn't bother with any of that real world, grounded stuff that they kept banging on about - they wanted to tell an epic sci-fi alien invasion story.

And I always said, the most important thing to understand when you throw around the words 'grounded' and 'realism' within the context of Superman, is that it's the world around him that you make those things - but you don't try to make him less of a hero, or bring him down to our level.

You can still show his emotions, his turmoil etc, while still having him be a true Superman who has conviction, passion, strength of character and a pro active nature.

Originally Posted by Senator Pleasury View Post
To me the problem is that Goyer took things to an absurd extreme by having Pa Kent committing suicide and, worse, having Clark not doing anything about it. One thing is to explore a different angle, another thing is going straight against the core of the characters. Instead of instilling an ethical and righteous way to see life and how to use Clark's powers, Pa Kent discourages Clark's good-nature instincts. Instead of valuing human life above everything, Clark shows respect for suicidal people (in this case, his own father no less). I'm sure Clark/Superman hasn't made his career respecting people's choice of taking their own lives.

What made it worse is that Pa Kent's death was supposed to discourage Clark from saving people, and it didn't. And we don't know why it didn't, or why Clark decided to do it anyways.

This factor alone ruined a huge part of what Superman is supposed to be, no matter if a lighthearted or tragic take.

It's like JK had zero faith in the human race, and that's what he spent most of Clark's childhood trying to instill in him - don't ever be yourself Clark, because people aren't ready and won't be able to handle it.

THAT is not the Jonathon Kent I know and love.

Originally Posted by KRYPTON INC. View Post
By the by.... Seeing as it is a long established story element in comics that Superman does not get involved with the internal politics of the nations of planet Earth, he is, in fact, always making a conscious decision to allow people to die, all the time. Every day brutal and repressive regimes murder, or undertake even worse actions against their own people. The in story reasoning behind this is that Superman cannot allow himself to dictate his morality to the entire world. This would make him the de facto ruler of Earth, and so, for this ideological reasoning, he let's evil men maintain their power. For the sake of a larger moral point Superman, FOR DECADES in the comics, has been shown to be willing to stop himself from using his powers to help others in immediate danger. Yet I hear no howls of displeasure from the fan community.
Oh come on, there is a huge leap between 'I can't save everyone, and I can't control the human race' to 'I won't save my father because people will be too afraid of me'.

Superman: "I can only tell you what I believe, Diana. humankind has to be allowed to climb to its own destiny. We can't carry them there."
Flash: "But that's what she's saying. What's the point? Why should they need us at all?"
Superman: "To catch them if they fall."

Last edited by hopefuldreamer; 10-21-2013 at 06:03 AM.
hopefuldreamer is offline   Reply With Quote