Thread: "Joyless" ?
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Old 11-13-2013, 04:27 AM   #100
Batmannerism's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Default Re: "Joyless" ?

Originally Posted by The Batman View Post

The 70's were just as crappy as today. People wanna act like nihilism only came into vogue with the 21st century, when that's not really the case.

This whole "Relatable hero" fad is just that...a current fad. Now every character is essentially like Spider-Man.

Agree to disagree dude.

Hmmmm....I remember the 70's, there certainly were some crappy times,
(cold war, Vietnam, oil embargo and polyester),
but other than that things weren't quite as nihilistic as now.

As to the relatable hero fad.....hmmmmmm, don't you think audience sensibilities evolve ? Very few films from the 1950's are popular today,
sure there's a few that are classics, but a lot of them are just rubbish.

The 70's spawned some amazing film-making (star wars, superman TM, jaws,
the Godfather.... interesting that Mario Puzo wrote two of those !) and a huge amount of crap.

Anyway, back to the relatable hero. That's not a fad man, look at action movies over the past .....well all of them, you've got your films with super-heroes ( guys who are just so ****ing awesome they can't be touched, e.g. any Steven Seagal movie) and then there's the hard-luck guy who barely gets by and wins in the end through guts (like, the first Die-Hard film) cinema is
full of relatable heroes, that's nothing new.

So we disagree there, which is cool, IMO IYO, that's cool man.

But what is not cool is comparing Superman to Spider-Man.
I like Spider man....sometimes, but Superman is a much more compelling character.

Comics wise, the old " he always does the right thing, and always gets screwed." gets a bit old after a while. I really enjoyed the early 90's / late 80's Todd McFarlane Spider Man period, where he got his **** together
- there was actually an evolution of the character, rather than the perpetually dorky loser. Yes, we get it, having super powers didn't improve his life.....but doesn't that say something about him as a person ?

Superman could grind the world beneath his boots. There are some great depictions of what he'd be like if he turned to evil, or just became selfish, and really started unleashing his powers - pretty much nothing could stop him.
The greatness of the character comes from him continually choosing, not to
be like that. He does get a bit sanctimonious at times, but he always comes through.

Spider Man says "with great power comes great responsibility", but Superman
lives by those words, and everything he does reflects them -so much so, that he never needs to say it, or get angsty about it, he just gets on with it.

Now onto the films. I ****ing hated Andrew Garfield as Peter Parker, he was nowhere near as enjoyable as Tobey Maguire, however, Garfield wasn't bad as Spider-Man, he got the cockiness and the wise-cracks just right. Spider Man is a pretty annoying super-hero, as pissing off his enemies is one of his most effective tactics (it works for him !). While sometimes it's amusing, often he comes off as being a prick (although I though Maguire also captured that underneath the mask he's often scared ****less, and some of that bravado is
faked, advantage Maguire !)

Also, the film depictions of Peter Parker don't really stack with what I know about teenagers, (having been one, and worked with quite a few).

Superman, from MOS, wow ! We see the guy from his birth to his early adulthood, plagued by self-doubt, bullies, and a lack of identity. Sure, we can't all crumple steel pipe like paper, but most of us deal with similar things.
So does he become a loud-mouthed jerk, like Spider-man ? Arguably, being
vastly more powerful, he's got much more weight to throw around. No, he's even less cocky or mouthy -even to his most hated enemies.
Just like the comics, he just gets on with it.

Perfect example. The oil rig. Smashes down the door to free the trapped workers, doesn't say a word....doesn't need to. In many movies the fact that
the hero had so few lines would be a failing, in MOS Cav-El did a great job,
with very little to say- but you knew what he was thinking.

Also...first appearance in costume. For Maguire, the first swinging thru town scene ( okay, CGI not what it is today) I thought "yeah, that's spider man alright" which was cool, but nothing compared to the thrill when Clark steps out of the ship, wearing the costume for the first time. His cape billows in the wind and I thought "WOW, THAT'S SUPERMAN !" you know, that's what Superman would really look like. Beyond cool, beyond awesome and way beyond any of the Spider-man films.

I see by the username you, like myself, are a Bat-fan. Batman doesn't say anything until he's ground someone's face into the dirt (well, someone who deserved it). In some ways Batman's just as impossible as Superman ( genius, scientist, detective, master-of-disguise, mechanic, armourer, billionaire, ninja)
but he's such a compelling character - for some reason the angst and obsession that drive him, never get old (unlike a lot of characters, e.g. Wolverine, I mean, I love the guy, I'm Canadian, but that "I'm a gruff loner " routine gets really ****ing old. Face it, you're part of the Xmen, get over yourself and play ping pong with Cyclops).

Okay I lost track of where I was going with that, other than to say that Batman's awesome (and also much, much, much more compelling than Spider-Man). He's a guy who doesn't change that much (well not his internal motivations) yet keeps us coming back, whereas Spider Man just gets annoying after a while.

But, this is nothing personal man, just IMO. cheers.

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