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Old 12-06-2013, 01:47 AM   #76
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Default Re: 8 years of no Batman or Bruce Wayne, and NO ONE could pick up the trend?

Originally Posted by shauner111 View Post
All im hearing is SHOULD HAVE THIS AND THAT. Sorry but they told their story the way they wanted to tell it. They dont owe anybody anything. It's their interpretation just like the thousands of different ones in the comics. They wanted to tell THEIR ending story if Batman had a true ending, which it never really does in the comics.
And I'm free to criticize it, just like everyone else does with the comic book movies they dislike.

Originally Posted by shauner111 View Post
It's "not batman".......and who are you to say this? Everybody has their own batman, none is wrong. So you should rephrase that to IT'S NOT MY BATMAN.
It's a Batman I guess, but I think most would agree that they had a better go with the character in Begins and Dark Knight. That's why so many are split on this thing.

I don't particularly have "A" Batman. There's no such thing. I have a certain respect for every incarnation, to a point. I dig the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, movies, television show, but there are others that don't sit right with me. I'm not the type that thinks there's one all encompassing type of Batman or any that is definitive.

I absolutely dig Nolan's version, until he slammed it into a wall with TDKR.

Originally Posted by shauner111 View Post
I still enjoy TDKR more than any other comic book movie, so i guess im liking a film that has nothing to do with Batman?
Pretty much. It's more of a contemporary tale about the world we live in than it is a truly defining Bruce Wayne or Batman story. Nolan was clearly more invested with a Howard Hughes biopic, "historic epic", a story grappling with modern issues than he was Batman. A Bruce that isn't in pain and lets the hurt of his parents go isn't Batman anymore, is he?

Honestly though, that's probably why Batman has lasted as long as he has. People taking it and bending him in a different way. I can understand it . . . but I don't have to like it.

Originally Posted by shauner111 View Post
I guess somebody like Michael Uslan who has been following this character since forever, who is in his 60s, he loved a movie that got Batman all wrong??
The guy hates Adam West 60s Batman, there's plenty wrong with him.

Originally Posted by shauner111 View Post
You guys are bold. It's simple, it's not your Batman and that's fine. But it's MY Batman and ive been a fan of this character since i was 3 buddy. I know who batman is, im just aware the medium of film can do things differently. IMO they changed things but still respected the essence of Batman.
Batman don't quit. Period.

In fact, I don't think there's been an interpretation out there that's ever fully hanged it up. There's varying interpretations, sure. Lighthearted Batman, angry Batman, killer Batman, etc. but thus far they've all been pretty dedicated to the cause (until Goyer gets a hold of it and spreads his sick "hope" fetish). You Nolan boys say closure, I say cop out.

If they had any balls, they would have literally made the "legend end" instead of the marketing fluff they vomited.

Originally Posted by shauner111 View Post
Anyone who says that the essence of Batman is to be Batman til he's old and grey and never give up the mantle, has no idea what theyre talking about because he's written that way for a reason. To sell their comics, the story needs to continue. Even people in the business have said this.
Who said he has to do this until he's old and grey? Not I.

Fact of the matter is, this particular Batman was Batman for just over a year . . . contemplated quitting and eventually, quit. Sad part is, they unplugged this particular Batman just when the going was good. For years the film interpretation was "a Batman in his prime", then suddenly, bam, we're in the future . . . and he hasn't done a damn thing.

Originally Posted by shauner111 View Post
Anyone who thinks Blake getting the mantle was B.S, sorry but it was set up all the way back in Batman Begins that this version of Batman was to continue until he inspired somebody to stand up for their city.
That Bruce was also young and naive and pined for a childhood friend that didn't have any interest in him in the end.

Things change, people change. Back in Begins? That whole speech is before he's even found Batman. He's thinking a loud on the plane, he doesn't know what he wants. He searching, you can see him grasping. Is it about "inspiration" and "hope" (ugh) or is it about striking fear into the hearts of criminals? Or maybe he just has a daddy, inferiority complex he's trying to work out after those preachy train rides.

Begins was more about Bruce facing his fears and embracing Batman than it was about the city. Screw that preachy, idealistic crap. Wanna know what sums up Bale Batman/Begins Batman best? That fantastic teaser trailer with the Bruce monologue. It should have been THAT during that fateful plane trip. True, the character shouldn't be all about revenging and vengeance, but on the flip side, starry-eyed romanticism with Roman allegories and Greek tales is also a little much.

Besides that, the concept also moved on. Whatever the reason, The Dark Knight certainly put the idea of Batman inspiring others on it's head with it's ending. Batman found that he couldn't inspire othersand you know what? It wasn't that bad at all. Batman didn't stand for a "symbol of hope", he says as much. He became something else. I'd say they got the essence of the character just right at their second go than they did by film 3. Like I said, I'll take silent guardians/watchful protector/dark knight descriptions over forced martydom (that isn't even martyrdom when your main character planned the ending before the get go) and freaking Batman statue unveilings.

Originally Posted by shauner111 View Post
Until the people fought evil (Bane's revolution). So i guess the next thing you'll say is "cops were the only ones!"...well are they not people of Gotham? They're citizens of Gotham and breathe like anybody else.
I wasn't even going to state that . . . but you're right! Deep down you know it's true!

What did Gotham do? Diddly squat.

They let some weirdo with a breathing problem take it over and hid in their houses for 5 months. The people on the ferries in Dark Knight took more initiative than the ones TDKR. You're right, it was the cops! I didn't have to even mention it. Are they citizens? Sure. But as a whole, Gotham feels pretty worthless.

Honestly, after watching em all recently, I really don't see why Batman is fighting for these people. I really don't. You know what might have been darker and edgier? If Wayne/Batman was doing this for himself. Selfish, sure, but this whole pipe dream of a glistening, gold trimmed city with people standing up for "what's right", and some assistant DA's view of the justice system is too sterile for a gritty Batman story. This Bruce would have made for a better Superman, I'm sure Goyer agrees.

Originally Posted by shauner111 View Post
Batman still has to continue though because there's always crime. So what happens when Bruce is 90, are you saying that nobody should be Batman?? So Batman Beyond is rubbish?? Sorry but thousands/millions would disagree.'s not YOUR Batman..
Missing the point.

That's one of the great things about Batman. His vow against crime, his "warring on all crime" is a fruitless one. There will always be crime and he won't always be around to fight it. That alone would make for interesting development and issues that this interpretation doesn't even touch on. Why? Because he never has a sort of vow to rid the world of crime. His mission is one of icky hope and false ideals of a better tomorrow. It's actually sort of hard to believe that this Bruce watched his parents get gunned down in cold blood.

. . . then again, no Rachel, possibly a better Batman.

Batman Beyond Bruce? He's like what, 80s? 90s? And he's still kicking ass! He helps the Justice League, he's in his own Batman armor suit fighting ink before his heart gives out. He's helping Terry, wishing he could still fight the good fight as he watches through the suits eyes. He considers himself Batman in his head. He's fantastic. I love Batman Beyond as well as the animated series shows that depict Batman.

Uh, yeah. Bale Bruce is in his 40s when he hangs up the cape and he clocked in maybe a year. Apples and Oranges. I don't remember old man Beyond Bruce kicking back with some random chick that stole from him and almost got him killed, whilst touring Italian bistros because his fruity, emo Butler wanted him to. In fact, I can't see 30s Batman, 40s Batman, 50s Batman, 60s Batman, Adam West Batman, 70s Batman, 80s Batman, Miller Batman, Keaton Batman, Bruce Timm/Paul Dini Batman, 90s Batman, etc. doing any such thing.

Bale Batman is a puss and Rachel and Alfred made him that way. Which sucks because that character had so much potential post-Dark Knight pre-TDKR.

Originally Posted by shauner111 View Post
If i may be so bold to all the people who couldnt stand Rises. The comics are only one way of telling his story. Theyre not definitive. Nothing is. Batman has become something more, told through different mediums. Which all have the potential to tell THEIR take on Batman as they see fit. Just as valid as the so-called source material. Comics go through writers like crazy, film will too, it's all the same. And ill say that i believe Nolan's ending showed the respect that Bruce Wayne truly deserved as a character by giving him a happy ending since the comics CAN'T do this themselves. Theyre not allowed to.
You're preaching to the choir. I know Batman can and has been told in a lot of different ways. That's why the character will be celebrating it's 75th anniversary next year.


A happy ending for Bruce isn't fulfilling his prissy Butlers contrived and scripted dreams. I'd like to think the character would be much happier training a protege or leading a group in an underground army to carry out his own sense of justice or fulfilling the philanthropic side of his other persona for the city (you know, instead of unknowingly BUILDING A BOMB, or just giving away his house to ORPHAN Annies).

Cafes with Anne Hathaway would get old after a while, I'm sure of it. Especially after you've driven around in the Batmobile or have flown around the Gotham skies.

You know what would be a great story for this Bruce? Feeling that urge or compulsion to come back, true Dark Knight Returns style. Not "well, this cop has piqued my interest since he JUST knows who I am with DEM EYES, I better see what this is all about before I get my ass kicked, then trick everyone into thinking I'm dead with autopilot shenanigans".

A happy Bruce might even be one that *gasp* relishes being Batman!

Originally Posted by shauner111 View Post
Nolan tried something different (God forbid somebody tries something fresh! )
Hey now, Begins and Dark Knight were fresh. Ain't got no problems with those.

Originally Posted by shauner111 View Post
Hey, i love when batman's doing it for 20 years straight and has this mentality of never quitting...but he still passes the mantle to somebody.
Grayson > Blake
Drake > Blake
Terry > Blake

Need I go on. Atleast he trained them. Not, "oh, here's all my gear, good luck bro".

There's a difference. He knew Blake for maybe a week, atleast with the others he's a surrogate father. Not so with TDKR. He's more like an older brother that just got home from the war, enlisted his lil, inexperienced bro.

Originally Posted by shauner111 View Post
But Nolan showed balls and integrity when he payed respect to Bruce, after all he's been through, by giving him peace, instead of condemning him to hell to sell more issues.

After all he's been through.

Are you sure you're a Batman fan?

Originally Posted by shauner111 View Post
BTW your last part wasnt even funny. The fact that you came up with that stuff tells me YOU'RE the one who is a little sick lol. So an adult can't love and care for a child? Get outta here!
"My protectah"

Bane is pure evil. Talia and him are both warped individuals. I find it a little sick that you would find yourself looking to sympathize with someone that wants to blow up a city for no apparent reason (they hated Ras and have no reason to conform to his ideals . . . until they somehow find out that Bruce killed him).

Of course I'd concoct something like "Bane is a pedo", I hate his character. He's one of the worst Bat villains in these movies. A better meme than a cinematic achievement. If you look at the story, why wouldn't he? Ra's thought he was a monster, maybe it was because he tainted his daughter mentally and physically. I mean, surely one is not looking too far into it when they say that Talia has daddy issues. She chose Bane instead of her biological father and screwed someone she had a seething hatred for. I didn't write that twisted stuff (and if I did, I'd give it a little more depth and weight than what we got with the character-for-sake-of-twist we got with "Miranda Tate).

Awful, just awful. Ivy and Freeze give Talia and Bane a run for their money. Atleast they had lame puns instead of weird psycho babble and non-coherent motives. Hell, Ivy and Freeze's plan for the world was more in line with Ra's Al Ghul's vision than Talia's and Bane's with the whole "freeze and regrow life" thing they had going on.

Last edited by milost; 12-06-2013 at 02:03 AM.
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