I already reviewed TDKR in every way it can be reviewed - as a Batman film, a stand-alone film, and a sequel to BB/TDK. My opinion on each of those still stands. Bad Batman film, bad sequel, ok/decent stand-alone film. The way I would describe the film as just a film is this way: Let's say x and y both represent great thing a film has to offer. TDKR has both x and y in it. At first that thought excites you but when you sit down and analyse things, you realize it doesn't make sense for both x and y to be present. I consider that to be TDKR in a nutshell. It has a lot of great ideas and great scenes individually, but a lot of them make no sense and/or don't fit when you look at them in context and/or at the bigger picture overall IMO.
1) I agree with your overall point, but I think it is false to say that story comes first. Story comes second IMO. First would be the characters (including acting). If you're not invested in the characters and/or if your characters aren't likeable, there is not much the film can do overall to pull you in.
2) I have issues with Bane writing-wise, but none in terms of his acting. I thought Tom Hardy did a great job, though I do agree that it isn't untouchable.
3) You brought up a really good point with JGL. Despite the generic characterization of John Blake, JGL does a fantastic job. I think he does the best possible job an actor can do with such character. I think that is what angers those that dislike the "I saw Batman through your orphan eyes" scene even more. If the role was poorly acted, the scene would be more funny in a "look how bad this is" way. But it is the quality of the performance that really bugs me. It is the fact that you wouldn't expect such a stupid moment with such a fantastic performance. Thus when it comes, it hits you by surprise (not in the good way).
Also bumping this up from the previous page since I have a feeling milost distracted everyone from it with his (above) long posts.
Originally posted by Shikamaru
Technically I was here from the beginning (see page 1) . Also the same thing goes for me. I don't think I ever debated a movie more in my life either, though TASM comes close. It was for about an entire year and more specifically, for about an entire year of in-depth long analytical debates.
However, I would argue it wasn't just our love for the character that caused it. It was also the fun and the unpredictability. I still have a passion for Batman. I don't know about your opinions, but I'm not really looking forward to BvS. Every new announcement they make makes the film look like a bigger train wreck and film pushed by suits than the previous one. Yet despite still loving the character and BvS looking way worse than TDKR ever did to me, I rarely discuss the film on here (and when I do, my rants are more short and to the point). Why? Because the unpredictability factor is gone, which makes the fun go away too. We could never predict what any of us would have said next, which made things interesting.
On the other hand, the "new guys" in the BvS thread can almost be read like a book. If I go to the main thread and leave a post reflecting a negative impression of the film, I can already predict the replies I will get. The vast majority of them would sound almost exactly like these:
"Why can't you give the film a chance?"
"I think you're just trying to hate the movie."
"How do you know for sure it will be bad? Do you have a time machine or something?"
"No, actually Goyer and Snyder have been planning this for months."
"Why is this being released prematurely? Because you don't like it? Because you would have done something different?"
"x and/or y being present in the film doesn't mean the film will be bad."
"Have you seen The Town/Argo?"