View Single Post
Old 01-03-2014, 08:25 PM   #676
I Am The Knight
World's Finest
 
I Am The Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: DCAU
Posts: 12,398
Default Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Quote:
Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
Bruce has got to be an assumed victim of the siege. On top of that he had a small funeral with only his "surrogate family" in attendance...clearly Gotham has bigger fish to fry that determining how and when Bruce died, and he'll inevitably be counted among the dead of "Gotham's elite", likely frozen at the bottom of the river.
Sure. It's not a big deal, really.

Quote:
On top of that, as I posted a few pages ago- I think becoming disconnected from his wealth is probably the best thing that could ever happen to him and the only way he can truly be free. I do suspect that Selina has "saved for retirement" and that's the money they're living off of though.
I'm not sure I agree with that. Without his fortune, The Batman wouldn't have beeen able to operate at the level he did, so obviously his fortune can be put to good use. As for being free...Eh, I suppose you're connecting that to the "pain and tragedy" speech and how Bruce has to escape Gotham...Which I frankly find like a kinda melodramatic way of forcing the Cafe ending that Nolan and Goyer were fixated upon, this notion that Nolan introduces in this third film, that was absent from the previous two. Gotham is not a one dimensional entity. There's good and bad in it, just like any place in the world. Is he just gonna turn a blind eye to crime in Europe, ala Peter in Spider-Man 2?

Quote:
Again, this line keeps getting taken out of context. Here's out it plays out in the film...

Bruce Wayne: The idea was to be a symbol. Batman could be anybody. That was the point.

This is NOT the same thing as Bruce thinking anybody could go out and literally BE Batman. Obviously his "HOCKEY PAHHHDS" response in TDK make that clear. What Bruce is speaking to is the desire to be a SYMBOL that goodness can rise from anywhere, even within a corrupt city. He wanted the people of Gotham to believe that good still exists, and he his used a symbol and anonymity to get that across. He's speaking to Gotham's point of view...the point of view he wanted them to have. To shake them out of apathy and inspire them. It's impossible to interpret this line without relating it to the prior films because Bruce is reminiscing on the past there, with a sense of nostalgia even.

The fact that he ends up entrusting Blake at the end just pushes that theme a little further, because in a sense John Blake is the "every man". But at the same time, he's really not the every man. He is Nolan's Robin after all. As James H pointed out, he proves to be one of the smartest people in the whole trilogy and quickly rises to the rank of Gordon's go-to guy in Batman's absence. And clearly, despite being a believer in the Batman he wasn't dumb enough to put on hockey pads and try to be a vigilante on his own. He instead chose to go through the system and become a cop, which is probably what Brian and his buddies should've done. Or at least helped the community in some other, less violent way if the force was still too corrupt at that time.

He shows good instincts and quick-thinking throughout the film. Again I have to agree with James H- if one is to criticize his character, criticize him for being a "too perfect" Gary Stu character. I've heard that criticism before, and it's fair and frankly, it's true. Because as is, I think the film did a good job showing that he has great potential, at least as a detective and as someone with strong sense of justice and the will to act even in the face of widespread apathy. And that's what he represents- an indication of the future that we can never quite know. The potential for a better tomorrow.
This is nice inspirational stuff, but I'm sorry, Nolan is trying to push the idea that this guy is not just gonna a Robin detective, this guy is supposed to be Bruce 2.0, with Nolan giving him "the Bat rage" ...

Johnny Blake: "Not a lot of people know what it feels like to be angry, in your bones."

Ra's to Bruce: "Your anger gives you great power...."

...Having a scene where Johhny Blake despises having to use a gun and throws it away, and even getting crimefighting lessons from the man himself, Batman....

Batman: "If you're working alone, wear a mask."

Blake: “I'm not afraid to be seen standing up to these guys.”

Batman: "The mask is not for you. It's to protect the people you care about."

Now why would Nolan add this little exchange when we already know this from Batman Begins? It seems like Bats had already made up his mind about Blake (In a scene where Bats has to save the guy's ass) doing some "field work" in the future...Nolan is trying to suggest that this guy is set to become Gotham's Next Vigilante, a task for which he is absolutely not prepared for, and has no one to guide him at all, and no money to keep the whole thing going. What is the point of showing Bruce go through hell in Batman Begins to become Batman, if all Blake is going to need for him to be Batman himself is a Batcomputer? It's not earned, it's just a convenience so that Nolan can connect his themes and wrap everything quickly.

More than wanting to show that good can come from anywhere, he wanted to inspire the people of Gotham to take back their city. Like Dent said, people "just stood by and let scum take control of the city." Bruce wanted to "show people their city doesn't belong to the criminal and the corrupt". He wanted to shake people out of their apathy, to demand justice. I don't think Bruce wanted to endorse vigilantism. It's a huge burden, and it proves fatal for some in TDK.

In TDKR, he basically goes "you know what, I'm done with this city. But maybe the symbol has to go on..." Um, OK Bruce, but don't just hand over the keys to this kid and pretend that everything is going to be OK. You have interacted with nuBatman for a couple of hours, and somehow you think this is enough to just go away and trust that this guy will handle everything. I know this is a movie, but....

Quote:
There's are fair comments regarding Selina. Obviously it's true that happiness needn't be equated with a romantic relationship. But I do think that it helps as an indication that he's moved on. He could've been sitting at that table alone and it would still be just as triumphant. Selina being there is a nice bonus, that frankly I think he deserves after everything his soul has been through.
I don't mind him being with a woman per se, just the fact that he ends with Selina. I don't really buy their relationship, as shown in my previous posts.

Quote:
That said, I think your version of the ending could've worked too. But in inevitably would've set people up to think that it's a "Batman and Robin together!" ending rather than a "Bruce moves on, passes the torch" ending. In other words one is more suggestive of a sequel and further stories of the adventures of Batman and "Robin", while the other closes the book a little more firmly on Bruce Wayne's story.
I would've been fine with that. Honestly, after months of hearing about this supposed "hard ending", I was surprised that Nolan decided to close with that shot of Blake rising (a great shot BTW). It felt like if WB wanted to make another Batman in the Nolan universe, they could.

__________________
Before SHH, your miserable, insignificant little life was laughable. Now that you've found SHH, have you noticed you've become more popular? Suddenly EVERYONE wants to hang out with you.

SHH. You owe us your livelihood. / Avvy by Kane52630!

Last edited by I Am The Knight; 01-03-2014 at 08:28 PM.
I Am The Knight is offline