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Old 01-26-2014, 06:16 PM   #78
The Batman
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Gotham City
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Default Re: Superman TM 1978 vs Man of Steel 2013, was the world ready, what do you think?

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Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
First, I'm not trying to undermine SMTM, it's awesome today, and was awesome back in 1978.
You could've fooled me. "STM only stands out because it was the only Superhero movie" sounds like undermining to me. Funny thing is, films like "The Dark Knight" and "The Avengers" stand out even with the market saturated with comic book films.

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Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
Second, People are entitled to their opinions, that's the whole point of this thread. If someone likes MOS better than STM and points out bits of STM that they felt were inferior, which explains why they prefer MOS, quite frankly they're entitled to do that, and I started this thread to hear different points of view.
I know what the point of this thread was. My remark was a general comment about the behavior of some MOS defenders.

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Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
Strangely, nobody seems to berate those who say that they prefer STM and point out MOS' weaknesses to explain that opinion.
That's because most people who prefer STM don't conjure up excuses for why people like MOS. They don't try to write off people who don't prefer STM with some straw man argument. If you like MOS better, fine. But don't come in here with some argument like "People like STM because they prefer simple movies and nostalgia blah blah blah".

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Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post

Third, in respect of you missing something, I suspect you have.
This is what you said:



Again, Superman the movie stands out, because.....there were no other superhero films being made in the 1970's. As far as campy action films, there were plenty.
And...that is a weak argument, often used to justify why MOS didn't get as good a reaction as STM. To act like any old superhero film could've came out in 1978 and "Stand out" simply undermines the hard work Donner and his cast/crew did to create a credible film.



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Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
Again, you completely undermine your own point there by stating that MOS has a whole bunch of competition, which do similar things.
STM is certainly an exceptional film, precisely because there were no other superhero films to compare it to, and it was the first appearance of Superman on screen.
My point is not undermined, because you make the assumption that MOS could not have stood out even with a bunch of other comic book films being released. MOS' problem was not that it had a whole bunch of competition. MOS' problem, IMO is that it did not stand out from the competition. The Dark Knight Trilogy stood out, as has "The Avengers".

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Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
Also, the "Dark Knight" analogy is a flawed one as well, Dark Knight stood out because it was a brilliantly made and acted film, but it too reflected on current trends in superhero cinema. It didn't stand out because it was doing something radically different (in fact it covered well-used ground in terms of story) and the more realistic tone of superhero films had been steadily increasing, even since the first Spider Man and Xmen films.
Um, no. First off, the Raimi Spider Man films were very light hearted in tone. Second, The Dark Knight was one of the first comic book films to transcend the conventions of the genre. Its basically a crime movie, not the typical sci fi action adventure flick that most comic book movies are. Not only that, it had a social commentary to it that most comic book movies don't, at least not at TDK's level. The only ones that come close are Singer's X-Movies.

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Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
So saying MOS isn't exceptional because its doing things other superhero films are doing, isn't really that valid an argument.
And Saying STM was only exceptional because nothing like it was out at the time is not a valid argument at all.

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Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
Saying its not exceptional due to weaknesses in story, acting or execution, now that would be a fair point.
To quote someone else, "If you have that much of a problem with people's opinions, you shouldn't trouble yourself by reading this thread."

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Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
and doesn't bear a lot of resemblance to those depicted in Avengers or Transformers.
If you say so.


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Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
So, your argument that MOS doesn't stand out the way STM did, and using a comparison with other superhero films, is a fundamentally flawed argument.
Not really. You just don't agree with it. You say this, and then you go on...to make comparisons with other superhero films.


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Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
Sorry, that was unnecessary sarcasm.
Something we can agree on!

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Originally Posted by hafizbat View Post
Welcome to the Batman v Superman forums, where people will take a perfectly reasonable comment you make and twist it into something completely different to make themselves feel better.

Last edited by The Batman; 01-26-2014 at 06:23 PM.
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