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Old 02-18-2014, 03:21 PM   #106
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Join Date: Aug 2000
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Posts: 29,765
Default Re: Batman vs the black Joker thug

I actually was only made aware of this thread's existence because of a squabble in the Rises forum. So, for once it served a purpose.

Yes, this is a great scene. Just a few things that people chimed in on earlier:

Burton's Batman is not so much cartoony, as he is a spectacle. For Burton, that spectacle is gothic and post-industrial, art deco hellacious fun, but that is pretty fun for anyone, really. Elfman's score reflects this as it drifts between two elements, one is a very heroic, operatic sound, and the other is not so much cartoony as a circus (though in Returns it actually has more tragic elements and intentionally skin-crawling oddness, though still in that big, endearingly over-the-top operatic way).

The Burton movie is like a circus. Things happen because emotionally they feel right and provide a great entertainment that compliment his vision. So, Batman can get his ass kicked by Ray Charles ( ) and then kill him without a second thought. It feels right and makes for a great sequence. Why was this goon up there waiting for Joker, if this seemed like a last minute change of plans after Batman stole his balloons? For the same reason why ninja-sword goon is standing behind a fence earlier in an area where he had no idea that Batman would be waiting to start a fight with the other thugs...because it is cool and fun.

Burton's movies deal with dark, brooding emotions, particularly Returns, but it is all very storybook logic that, at least in the first entry, is supposed to leave you on a high, like a three-ring circus reflected in the more boisterous parts of the score.

As for comparisons to Bane, I will say that this Batman is in a weakened state. He hasn't been Batman for years (albeit, I think that may mean 6-7 years, as there are hints throughout the movie that he did not hang up his cape over night). And Bane is established to be as well trained as Batman. There is more of a logic to it, which also makes it more plausible for fans to nitpick a fair critique: why didn't Batman have his instant KO sleeping agent with him from later in the movie? Such plausibility to why Batman would get defeated welcomes a more critical mind, but I still think it works.

Ray Charles? I love it.

"Let us disappoint the Men who are raising themselves upon the ruin of this Country."

--John Adams
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