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Old 04-21-2014, 04:21 PM   #38
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 966
Default Re: Should Batman be portrayed as a Protagonist or Antagonist in this film?

Originally Posted by InJustice View Post
That's a poor analogy. I'm not saying that Superman being an antagonist means that he has to be a ****** plot twist "I'm a bad guy/oh, I'm a good guy now!"character. That's not what I'm saying at all. Setting up Superman as an antagonist means that Superman is met with resistance from other heroes, the public, and the world. Which you've already mentioned, but you somehow assume that it means the characters have to be stupid in order for that plot to work, which I wholeheartedly disagree with.

You mention the audience, let's not forget we're coming off of Man of Steel where the audience has mixed perceptions of Superman. This creates an interesting dynamic in that the audience automatically associates with the other heroes (Batman and Wonder Woman) and the rest of the world, while at the same time, questioning Superman after the events of Man of Steel. Then you have characters like Lex Luthor, who feels threatened by his presence, so much so that you can have him be in investigation mode, to find out that Superman killed Zod (aka his fellow citizen), which leads to the whole "if Superman can kill his people, what stops him from killing us" campaign against Superman. It doesn't have to be like my idea, but the whole is to show how antagonism isn't as narrow as you view it.

In other words: antagonism does not mean that Superman has to be forced to fit a rather narrow villain trope, as you've outlined. You can create a villain that has justifiable motives...or even better, you can create an antagonist who has the ability change people's perception of him, which is what this movie should try to aim for now that he's dealing with Metropolis, Smallville's destruction...and the world's reaction to him. No superhero movie to my knowledge has done any of that, so it'd be a fresh story too.
Didn't TDKR do that?

One thing about TDKR is they didn't try to push the issue of Batman murdering Dent. Gotham was against him, but the story wasn't framed around something we knew wasn't true, and all the important characters were on his side. There was even a character that was able to read through that BS story and come to Batman's aid. Honestly I'd rather Batman and Wonder Woman be the Blake of the story, the character that doesn't believe the narrative that's being pushed and comes to the hero's aid.

If you're talking about doing something like that, then I don't mind. I just don't want them to push the issue too much. I don't want to think for even a second that "man these characters are dumb if they believe that", especially if we're talking about Batman and Wonder Woman. If it's just a perception thing where the world views Superman as reckless and a dangerous threat, that's fine, but I don't want Batman and Wonder Woman believing someone's narrative, even if it's the cunning Lex Luthor.

Basically I view the world and other heroes/main characters as two different entities. The world can have their perceptions shaped by someone like Lex, I don't mind that, that's a big part of his character, to be able to do that. The world is stupid, they'd let fear drive their actions. But WW and Batman? I don't like that at all. I don't like the thought of Superman being alone or Superman vs the world. If you're going to go down that path, I believe it's important to have any and all heroes be on Superman's side from the very beginning. Not only just the heroes, but the characters that were close to the events that happened in MOS, Lois obviously, but also Perry White, Jenny, Lombard, Swanwick, etc...If someone wants to shape the world's perception of Superman, that's fine, but all those characters need to be on his side, else the thought of "man these characters are stupid" will creep in.

Remember how Hardy and his soldiers were firing on Superman initially? They viewed him as a threat. That is how the perceptions of the people of the MOS world should be. Initially they are like what Hardy was like at first, distrusting, willing to extinguish the "threat", but after the events of the movie?

Last edited by Masone; 04-21-2014 at 04:45 PM.
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