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Old 04-21-2005, 12:26 AM   #68
The Guard
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Join Date: Jun 2002
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Default Re: Was BF a "decent" Batman Film or Not?

Why BATMAN FOREVER is decent?

Good acting from Val Kilmer, Nicole Kidman and Michael Gough

Great scenes like:

Like someone else said, the opening, Suiting up, which has become a stable of comic book films now, driving to Gotham, Batman swinging down to confront Chase and Commissioner Gordon, and giving his take on the situation, then going inside, kicking ass, saving the guard's life and going for a ride on the copter. And yes, Two-Face's opening monologue was good, too.

Batman rescuing Dick to be attacked and having to explain his actions. "If Bruce Wayne could have given his life for your parents...he would have."

The death of Dick Grayson's parents and the entire circus scene leading up to it.

The joining of Batman and Robin, and the stuff that comes before it, like Bruce's speech about the nature of vengeance. Dick Grayson's character, period, was fantastic. He was a laughing young daredevil without being over the top or campy. He was also pretty darn capable as a fighter/acrobat.

Anything involving Bruce's psychology about his parents, and how he remembers pieces about how he came to be The Batman. And yes, the duality/split personalities thing was all throughout the story.

Chase Meridian. A love interest that was neither dumb or weak, but still managed to make a good damsel in distress. Her role in Bruce's life was fantastic, her performance sizzled and hit all the right emotional notes. The rooftop scene was fantastic, as was the bedroom scene. Shades of Silver. St. Cloud.

Cinematography was indeed wonderful.

The suits, including both the Batsuit and the Robin suit, were fantastic. The Riddler also had some great costumes, and Two-Face's, while over the top, came right out of the comics and was well done.

I agree that the riddles left to Batman were too easily solved...True, in the comics Bats always seemed to get them right on but we as the reader usually didnt. Horrible lines in that scene as well..."

"How about...Mr. E?" "Mystery!" "Another name for a mystery?" "An enigma!" *We watch as the wheels turn, though it's painfully obvious* "Mr E. Nigma...EDWARD NIGMA!"
Why are those horrible lines? That's what The Riddler wanted. To be discovered.

Yeah okay..and the huge brainsucking blender demonic island being built in the middle of the bay wasnt the first clue...
No one said that didn't suck. But if The Riddler's going to be a threat...

Does he have a compulsion to leave stupid and lame riddles as well?
Stupid and lame riddles would be "What has four legs, and ticks?" The riddles that Riddler left were not simple to solve (despite what our resident geniuses pretend to have done), nor was the manner in which they came together to point out the Riddler's identity simple.

The Riddler character in the comics has a manic exterior personality that hides his calculating arrogant interior personality; Carrey puts no dimension to the role and plays the Riddler like Ace Ventura on crack.
Except for when he was reserved, for instance when he was playing Nygma, not The Riddler, or wanted to get a point across. Maybe you should read some comics that featured The Riddler before Jeph Loeb got ahold of him. He went around giggling, screaming things and ranting and raving quite a bit. Yes, there was a lot of Jim Carrey in his performance, and it worked pretty well.

But that is not Carrey's fault. Jim was given such horrible material to work with to become the Riddler, that he had to adopt his own flair into the character, which ultimately overpowered any minimal elemets of The Riddler that Carrey was given. Jim did this to ensure his character could be recognized throughout the film...because his riddles certainly left nothing of a mark.
Which elements of The Riddler weren't shown?

-A mockery of what Batman really is
How so?

-The portrayal of Burce Wayne as a spoiled brat that didn't get his way rather than a vengeful person with motive to stop evil.
You didn't watch this movie, did you?

"I would use its image to strike fear into the hearts of those that would do evil. I would have my revenge."

-Batman being transformed into a commercial shill for the WB to sell merchandise
Like he's not in every other version he's ever been?

-A Robin in his MID-TWENTIES
Actually he was supposed to be 18. I've seen a lot of 18 year olds that look like that. Especially athletes.

-A physically goofy and loud Two-Face
Are you referring to his outfit or just his personality?

-Riddles that the Riddler conceives are stupid and predictable
Because you figured out exactly what he was doing right off the bat, right?

-A love interest that felt like a cardboard cut out
Hardly. She was anything but a Bond girl type.

-The moronic action (a grappling hook swinging a bank vault into a skyscraper)
Let's talk about cars that leaps across rooftops. Was it realistic? Not really. Did it obey the laws of physics? Not really. Neither do half the things you see in the comics. That scene was cool.

-Camp, comedy, and over the top stunts
God forbid a Batman film have a little camp and a little humor. You know, since the comics are completely devoid of it. Over the top stunts such as...

-CGI city...Gotham felt like it was built in a studio behind a blue screen. It was Las Vegas, not Gotham
Looked like Gotham to me.

Last edited by The Guard; 04-21-2005 at 12:29 AM.
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