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Old 05-06-2012, 01:03 PM   #61
The Guard
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Join Date: Jun 2002
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Default Re: X-Men 3...seriously fans/people--WHY all the hate?

Berry is worse than ever. Storm's conversations with Senator Kelly and Nightcrawler in the first two films are far more significant to her character than anything in TLS, despite an increased screen time.
I cannot agree with you.

Berry's conversations in X-MEN and X2 are relevant to the core themes of X-MEN, not neccessarily Storm herself. They're single scenes that are then never addressed again. And Berry didn't play them all that well. Davidson and Cumming did, but Berry is just kind of there, doing her best. She did better in X3.

Storm has her POV about the cure
Storm has her leadership aspect
She has her interactions with Wolverine
She takes over as a teacher
She has more varied power usage

She's not anything approaching good in her performance in X3. But she gives a better, more nuanced performance in X3, and displays more emotional range than she did in either previous film.

While it would have been nice to have seen some conflict over killing Jean, we never saw Storm and Jean as very good friends in the series. Berry was aware that this wasn't the Jean they all knew. Cyclops and Xavier had been killed. The stakes were high. And the scene was more about making Wolverine aware of his role in things than her own emotions. Actually, there's an undercurrent of her holding her emotions in check as the film wears on, VS the opening scene, where's she's causing storms.

What Angel gets in the film is fine, except that he has no character to speak of. He exists solely as a POV on the cure, not as an interesting personality. The cure debate is entirely superficial, which is a shame as there is so much potential for interesting character interaction. Put Angel and Rogue together in a scene and see where it goes.
And I agree with you, but its the same type of issue we saw with Iceman/Pyro in X2. Their issues serve to flesh out the core themes, not neccessarily interesting character elements. This is a weakness of the franchise's use of supporting characters, not X3 alone.

I don't treat Logan's arc as a tick-box of ability displays. That's why I don't like this film. His relationship with Jean is incredibly flat. He may feel strongly for her, but as you've said it's one way. This love story is missing a key player, the man Jean actually loves.

As for what we actually got, Logan's arc is a retread of his conflict in X2 only less good. At the end of X2, he has chosen to throw in with the X-Men, and be a part of the group. Apparent the writers forgot about that, as TLS opens with him "just passing through".
The "relationship" wasn't excellently handled in either previous film, either. Its actually got more to it in X3, aside from Logan recognizing Jean didn't want him more than she loved Cyclops. Again, I'm not saying it's great, but it's not an issue that solely X3 had.

I don't treat his arc as a tick box of ability displays either. Logan has a very clear arc in X3, an extension and development of his story from X-MEN and X3. He is starting to become much less concerned with himself, as evidenced by the way he takes over mentoring some of the younger X-Men, and the way he goes after Jean. It's not Wolverine's story as much as X-MEN and X2 were, though he is still arguably the main character.

The love story is missing a key player? Then perhaps it's not a love story. Not in the conventional sense.

No...they didn't forget about him saying he's just passing through...they developed him to the point where he decides to stick around. That's his arc.

Pyro's resentment of Ice-Man is intense and under-explored. We know more about that character from a simple glance in X2, when he looks at Bobby's family. He's not out of character in TLS, he barely is a character. This doesn't bother me too much, but there was certainly more potential there.
In X2, we learn that Pyro is jealous of Bobby and his family in X2, and that he recognizes how far above humans he can be. He takes steps, when he attacks the cops.

That is expanded on in X3. He's looking to belong, he resents people who fear/would cure mutants, and he joins the Brotherhood and becomes a terrorist. I'm not saying it's a great character arc, but it's every bit as well handled as what was found in X2. A glance at a picture does not a compelling character/arc make.

Xavier's death is all flash, no substance.
I'm not sure why'd you'd think that. There's a very clear conflict there, not just between he and Eric, who have ideological differences, but between he, Jean, and The Dark Phoenix. He held Jean back, he recognizes the threat she's become, and he does his best to stop her

It's a death, but it's also the culmination of his character arc, and his greatest failure. What "substance" are you looking for that wasn't there? The death had an obvious impact, on multiple levels, for multiple characters.

As I said previously, it's undermined by the scene previously that made him look like an ass. Xavier is supposed to be a great man, but he's not shown to be here.
I don't think he looked like an ass. That seems to be your assessment. I think he made a judgement call. It was perhaps the wrong one, as the film shows.

What are we supposed to feel when he dies? Making his actions with Jean so morally ambiguous complicates the death scene, because it's not clear if this should be a tragic event or the consequence of meddling. This tension could be great, but it's not followed up on at all.
What do you mean what are you supposed to feel when he dies? It's an intense scene. Horror. Some sympathy for Xavier. Pride. Whatever you feel when people give their all and die.

It's BOTH a tragic event AND the consequence of meddling. Tragic, because of his role in forming and guiding the X-Men, and the loss of his leadership, and obviously the result of something he perhaps should not have done.

"Perception is the enemy of reason."


Last edited by The Guard; 05-06-2012 at 01:14 PM.
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