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Old 04-04-2013, 06:55 PM   #720
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR?

Originally Posted by milost View Post
It definitely seemed like at the end of The Dark Knight they were going to go with the "Batman Forever" route (if they were going to continue and had plans at the time). No doubt about it. There are hints of it before The Dark Knight too, like you mention in Begins. Rachel is convinced that the Batman persona is the main persona, his real face, "the one criminals now fear" and that kid she knew never came back. That's a pretty bold statement to write and include in the story. It also doesn't help that by the Dark Knight, his "chance for a normal life" is blown away by the Joker that thinks Batman is fun and believes "they're destined to do this forever". And yeah, there's also the note.

Before TDKR, Begins and Dark Knight were always pitched as an early Batman, a year one Batman. It was gratifying to see him learn, even in Dark Knight. Then when he finally stops the Joker, it felt like, "hey, this is the Batman from the comics". That experienced, "I'm going to do this forever", prep time, brooding Batman.

That whole line, "beautiful isn't it" is sort of chilling too. Especially when you figure it's after Rachel's death. Back in 2008, I always felt that in that sort of third act he was the fully fledged Batman. He's done learning the ropes, he's upgrading his armor to be more efficient, the Batcave and Wayne Manor is being rebuilt, etc. etc. He's also finally one step ahead of the Joker and is pushed at his limit when he kills Dent. Hell even the ending, "the Dark Knight", he's not a "hero", he's a dark hero who does what he has to. No more, "Rachel this" or "symbol that". I always assumed that her death resonated with Bruce the same way his parents did as a child so there was no turning back.

Then that whole "frozen in time" comment by Nolan before it became known what was really up. I thought he'd be "frozen in time" as Batman, not as a bearded "Bruce Wayne" who wants to be Batman who hasn't been in the suit since "that night", in horrible, horrible condition with a cane, who hasn't gone outside and hasn't been needed for years.

But then, yeah, we were thrown the curve ball, the rug was pulled out from under us. Nolan even said, "I think this will be a surprise to the audience". 8 years meant no Batman. 8 years meant no need for anything since "more important crimes" are at an end. 8 years meant recluse Bruce. 8 years meant Dent Acts and Harvey Dent days. 8 years meant "Batman could be anybody, that was the point". We got a rebuilt Batcave and Wayne Manor, but only for it to be used for Harvey Dent Day parties, archery and a few background checks before it's given to random new comer John Blake. We didn't even get a new upgraded suit when he eventually did become Batman even though the character would constantly be making upgrades. And when he's finally comes back, he's gone no sooner than he returned. Then when he returns again, he's gone for good.

I have no problem with any of the ideas in TDKR. Giving Bruce the option of having a happy life, Bruce Wayne being crippled or "broken" (man, I thought that cane was surely because of Bane), or even any ideas of retirement, but the way it was all executed just seems downright wrong to me. All of it actually. Yeah, surprises are nice, but some expectations are nice to have delivered. The transition, or lack there of between the world of The Dark Knight to the world of TDKR is a bit odd as well. Especially when it practically opens with a clip from TDK and then we're thrust into this new world, 8 years into the future where everything you assumed would logically happen, hasn't happened.

Yeah, this isn't "comic book Batman" and even though none of this is reality, a person can only handle so much physically. But a Batman that's only around for a year, year and a half tops? Especially after the cool, calculating character he became by the end of the Dark Knight? Even the new cool titled he's dubbed? To just reduce that to him acting strange, not really doing anything as Bruce Wayne or Batman just feels so wrong. Alright, so there's no mob crime for out there for Batman? If Bruce is really stuck in Batman mode and he's really compulsive and obsessed (like other characters in Nolan films), what would stop him from looking for crime? Surely there's some bad stuff in a city as big as Gotham, even without the mob. No muggings? No murders? No rapists? What if you had a Batman who was out looking for it, just to do it because he NEEDS to be out there? That's more compelling than moping around doing nothing isn't it? There's that episode from BTAS, I think it's "Christmas with the Joker" where it's Christmas Eve or something and Robin thinks that the night would be crime free and he's trying to convince Batman to hang it up until after it's over and enjoy the holidays. What does Batman do? He goes out there looking for it. He comes across a guy who he thinks is committing a crime and he's not, etc. etc. He's always out there looking for something. If there's no crime, than the Batman persona has no purpose.

I don't think we sound like "boo hoo, we didn't get our way or what we wanted to see", but it was sort of jarring to go in and get something totally different. Not just a few things, that's expected, but almost the entire picture. The whole "Robin" thing after years of "there won't be no bloooody Robin" was crazy to. It was like the movie was those fan fiction things we'd all see before 2011. "Bane and LoS", "Talia's Revenge", "Robin Cop" etc. I mean, after Batman Begins, it was pretty self explanatory where it would go. Nothing crazy or unpleasant. We knew we were going to get an active Batman. New suit. Cool. Yup, of course he's going to fight the Joker, they played it up at the end of Begins. Oh, the new District Attorney, Harvey Dent? Gordon, Dent and Batman are going to work with each other to take down the mob? Joker is rising to the top of the criminal food chain? Interrogation scenes with Batman pummeling the crap out of the Joker. Possible Two-Face!?!? All made sense.

Sure, taking the blame for the crimes and Two-Face dying were surprises, but it never felt wrong.

I love this post so much I want to marry it and raise tiny little posts with it.

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