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Old 04-11-2013, 06:34 PM   #167
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Default Re: In hindsight what changes would you do - Part 1

Originally Posted by Schrute View Post
As a stand alone film I think it could work very well, or even if this were the 4th film perhaps. But really only having a Batman that was Batman for maybe a little more than a year who retires just isn't Batman to me.
A relatable tale of a man dressed in a costume to take down an element of criminality and only that(the mobs)...I think a year is plenty enough.

Originally Posted by Shikamaru View Post
We've already discussed this before but I'll address it again in more detail this time. You're basically viewing this with a black-and-white mentality. You can't just say "Batman quit in The Dark Knight Returns so he can quit here too."

The problem with making Bruce retire just like in The Dark Knight Returns does not fit at all with the premise of BB & TDK being about the Year One Batman. You can't just go from a still inexperienced young Batman that hasn't figured out all the kinks yet to the old worn out retired Batman. First you have to show him fully become the Batman. Had that happened in the third movie and then Nolan would've shown the old retired Batman in the 4th or 5th movie, that would've worked. The Dark Knight Returns is allowed to do this because it is not a sequel to stories that were about a young Batman that was still growing into the mantle. It is a stand-alone piece. That is where the problem lies. You might argue that BB & TDK weren't meant to showcase the Year One Batman but that is a different topic altogether that we can discuss. Going by the notion that the Batman in BB & TDK is the Year One Batman, having an old retired Batman does not work at all.

That's the main problem I have with it. There are more problems with that aspect and luckily, a friend of mine made an entire video discussing the difference between the retirement in each story and why it works in Returns while it doesn't work in Rises.

Here if part 1 in case you're interested:
I want to answer this first:

You can't just go from a still inexperienced young Batman that hasn't figured out all the kinks yet to the old worn out retired Batman.
We never saw a very amateur Batman to even begin with. You mentioned this in the Arkham Origins thread, but I still don't get how you think we got a 'Year One' Batman when Bruce seemed like a pro from the very beginning of it. We got this capable Batman from the beginning who then just became better during TDK's events. He never felt inexperienced at all except for his first confrontation with Scarecrow.

Yes, in TDKR, he lost his touch, but this is natural for the route of not making Bruce this Bat-god character unlike The Dark Knight Returns. Bruce waits for something to go wrong in Gotham again, but he becomes egotistical and underestimates Bane from the beginning.

But now with everything else, I can easily see how TDKR works from BB and TDK. You don't, and that's your opinion, but I simply do. In Batman Begins, Bruce is wanting to create something everlasting, and a hope for Gotham City and he unwisely thinks Dent could bring this hope to Gotham without continuing this Batman legacy, but the face of Gotham was Batman all along(as given with Gotham building a statue at the end of TDKR). Bruce was wanting to move on with this once it's done in the first place, but the woman he wanted to move on with died, and that kept Bruce from moving on when he should have when the Dent Act started. Instead he waits for when Batman is needed again and is actually doing the smart thing by not going out just whenever and wasting the GCPD's time.

Now you say, a "rise of freaks" should have happened, but I don't see that as clear as you do. I see one freak, Joker, trying to create another and cause a stir with Gotham's soul, but Joker's "protege" is kept a secret, thus no "rise of freaks" as Gotham's soul is left intact. Joker is sent to Arkham Asylum and Dent is favored as a saint to Gotham City.

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