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Old 01-03-2014, 04:32 PM   #674
Shikamaru
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 7,759
Default Re: The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

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Originally Posted by GremlinZilla89 View Post
I know the planes were different. That is neither here nor there. All that is said is "We'll get the Korean smugglers". Then Bruce is jumping off his yacht full of people and swimming to a sketchy ass plane. Maybe it was somebody totally separate from the smugglers, maybe not. But considering not a single THING is mentioned indicating the plane is something other than the smugglers, we can assume that is what it is.
Alright, fair enough. Yeah, I guess you can count that as a flaw. That scene should have been executed better to make things more clear. Though it is nowhere as big of a part of the film as TDKR's ending, so I don't buy the original analogy between this and that scene in the first place. Even if, for the sake of argument, both of those scenes are equally bad, you're still comparing something trivial in TDK to something in TDKR that the movie itself made a big deal out of.

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Batman: "We didn't get here in time. It appears the Jokers men got him before we could stop it."
Gordon: "Yup, what he said."

Bingo, problem solved. Again, Considering what the Joker pulled off in this film would people really say "Nah, The Joker was innocent! He didn't kill Dent! FREE JOKER!!!!"


How? When the police already got there, Gordon was already in the building with Harvey. They knew there was someone in there holding Gordon at gunpoint and even heard gunshots. That's why they were there in the first place. There was no way in and out of the building.

Nothing about your pitch makes any logical sense. Your whole proposed solution is literally for Gordon to say that the Joker (or someone working for him) magically got in and out of the building. That would be an actual plot hole btw.

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Two cops to guard the most important man in the city who was already injured by the terrorist responsible for putting the whole city in a panic. Not to mention all the important people who already bit the dust, Dents partner and girlfriend included. Not very smart.
Two cops at Dent's door. There were several other cops throughout the whole hospital. Where were they, you might ask? Like I said in my last 100 posts, the Joker took them all out.

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Also not very smart that NOBODY noticed the ENTIRE Honor Guard was replaced by complete strangers....who just happened to know the procedures of an event like that...man, the Joker sure is a busy guy.
Honestly, it is not that hard to pull off. Any tactical genius can pull it off. And that's exactly what the Joker is.

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Where was the freakin' security?
Right there. The whole street was covered in cops.

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The Mayors life was just threatened, a judge and the Commissioner were killed and not a soul thinks "Hey, these guys aren't our guys?! Hey, that guy has crazy SCARS on his face...eh, probably nothing.."
The Honor Guards are composed of volunteers. It is not always the same people. It doesn't work that way. You don't just point at a fellow police officer and say "That guy is an Honor Guard". You can have Honor Guards that you personally don't know.

As for the scars, they don't prove anything. 1) It's not some rocket science mystery as to why a cop would have scars and 2) No one has seen the Joker without makeup + there are no clear photos/videos of him until he gets captured by Gordon.

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Oh, and why the HELL did Bruce get go there without any sort of disguise?
Are you kidding? Me thinks you should read more Batman comics because Bruce does this all the freakin' time during the day. He essentially does the same thing here that he did in Year One (even dressed almost exactly the same). Heck, what he did in Year One was way worse because he actually interacted with people that could see him.

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What caused the shift you ask? Rises wasn't TDK 2.0. I'm not saying that applies to everyone, so stop right there. But I do totally think it's a pretty big factor on these here interwebz.
Usually I end the discussion whenever I see people resort to this redundant pathetic excuse of an argument. But since I like you and you're so special, I'm going to make an exception.

Though I have to ask: If your whole argument is that TDKR is crapped on by people like me just because it isn't as good as TDK, doesn't that disprove your "TDK has just as many flaws as TDKR" hypothesis?

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And you're simply proving my point. To you, I'm "playing a game" and the problems I'm bringing up can be explained.

JUST LIKE MUST OF THE COMPLAINTS AIMED AT TDKR! Yet for some reason the little inconsistencies and unanswered questions in Rises are treated like sacrilege when, as I said, in TDK they are swept under the rug with conjecture, guessing and assumption. You're using assumptions and filling in gaps with very little to no real information given in the film, just like defenders of Rises do.
Because they can be explained. Everything you brought up can be explained, other than that plane thing that I admitted needed better execution.

Seriously, what the hell do you want from me? I already gave you valid explanations on everything you brought up. I admitted you being right whenever you were right (i.e. plane thing needing better execution and Joker somehow getting away from the party). I even listed some other flaws I found in TDK on the side (Reese waiting so long to reveal Batman's identity and Joker knowing Batman was going to be in the interrogation room). Yet all you keep saying over and over again is "Y'all think TDK is teh perfect masterpiece and has no flaws!"

There is no point to continuing this. You clearly won't be satisfied until you see me type "Yes, TDKR is of the same brilliance as TDK, the Joker has magic powers, and you have a bigger penis" regardless of how many times I explain things to you. So why should I bother?

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Both films have logical gaps or plot points that are only half explained but Rises inexplicably gets the brunt of the hate. I honestly, 100% cannot fathom how people can just except that the Joker can do what he did when he would essentially need a TARDIS to pull it all off but people get stuck on the logistics of a Clean Slate and how Bruce got into Gotham. You say "he's the Joker thats why he can do it!!!!"

Well ok, "HE'S THE BATMAN! HE CAN DO IT!!!!"
I already explained to you the problem with the clean slate thing. I won't repeat myself.

As for "he's the Joker, he can do it", yes he can do it. I'm sorry if you can't understand the huge difference between a tactical genius taking out a bunch of out-of-shape cops with simple weapons and another tactical genius travelling halfway across the world with nothing on him only to easily get in despite the city being under the surveillance of someone on par with him.

Everything you brought up is either:
1) Not a flaw because the film explains it.
2) Nitpicks and trivial parts of the film that don't need much of an explanation, and the same thing can't be said for the things I brought up in TDKR.

You don't see me make a big deal out of the things you brought up for the same reason you don't see me make a big deal out of Bruce taking his sweet time shaving and lighting that giant logo on the bridge despite there being a time bomb - because it's something so small that it is insignificant.

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