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Old 02-07-2013, 05:06 PM   #82
Solidus
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: First Order
Posts: 21,806
Default Re: The Star Wars Fanbase - How do they feel?

To me a few things because my fingers are getting tired of this. lol

1. BO revenue does not alone equate equality. Transformers, and many other films that are usually agreed to be meh or terrible do well. Hell even in proportion those "Scary Movies" continue to do something. The OT still after inflation sold way more then the PT so again, if we will use that as an indicator it still says, the OT was much more loved, because it made even ESB and ROTJ in after inflation did more then the PT films.

2. You keep getting into perspective. And a part of me goes....well yea of course. There is perspective of everything. But if you continue just to argue that we will get into some kind of psychedelic, nothing is real kind of argument. It does not really pertain to what I'm saying. You yourself keep saying you know the quality of the PT is much less then the OT, and yet then you negate that and almost argue against it saying no. So I guess I"m confused. I know your saying it is not as bad, but you are admitting that the OT is pretty much a better all around experience?

The thing is this is not the posts of a "hater". I give every film a chance. And rarely go into my disdain for a film. This is an exception.

But the thing is you can try to say how many subjective things there are. But there is a point in the real world in many situations where you do have standards, and objective measures, or as objective as you can get. Box office does not always equate to quality. My whole point is on film making 101. Not just I liked it because. And with in those fields yes there is always exceptions. Is there a few people that really don't like TDK and other popular films? Of course. But there are measures that people use that are as objective as they can be to at least give some what of a consensus. Metacritic, and Rotten Tomatoes can give general (I mean general) indications of it. Where as some of these people in conglomerate have more experience with the craft called film. You have measures of awards ect. Just like in school is the grading systems perfect? Hell no, but they can give some general view of a person. As can films. IMDB and many other sites where millions rate it, can have somewhat of a perspective on it. Not the best but more objective then not. From the ratings you have 300,000 people giving ROTS a 7.7/10 whereas out of 900,000 user ratings you have a 9.0/10 for TDK. Are these perfect measures? No but they are better then "My experience/your experience" for a more massive intake of what is happening. With all the conglomerations of review sites, teachers, books and talks of the PT, it is (even to many PT fans) clear that many did not think nearly as great of the PT as they did the OT.

There is always subjectivity, but there are some core aspects that can be seen somewhat objectively. Are they always right? No. But the thing is if we say that, we could never get many things said in any regard and just always rebuttal for the sake of it. So is it better than nothing? I say yes.

My point is, the PT is not seen in the high regards of the OT to, fans (from fan ratings) to GA (Box office if you want to use that). To the film community, critics, like RT, like Metacritic, like The Academy Awards, and top 10 lists or critic circle awards, or AFI ect ect. Now as your point of ROTJ? Will it ever be something in the AFI, no I would say not. ROTJ still a great film, but started the signs of downfall which continued with the PT.

There are variances of thoughts on ROTJ, from fans, GA, critics ect. It rated an 8.4 out of 350,000 fan votes on IMDB. Now are these perfect, no there are some that disagree and that's just fine. But to me when you average a lot of this stuff out from Box Office Mojo, to Yahoo movies ect, when you pull what statistics you can (yes there is always error in it) You can paint a better picture then saying "Yes I think so, or no I think that."

To make my point, I actually love The Fountain, Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions, and more so Quantum of Solace. But funny enough, I know that these are not loved by the masses, and I know I'm in a minority, even though it did some what decent in sales/critic circles (barley decent) so I can sit there and say. "Yea I loved that movie, but I'm not going to lie and say everyone loves it to make me feel better." I look at what few objective measures we have. And even if I see the massive flaws in a film, there are times where I can't explain why I like it, but I don't try to rationalize and tell others that that is wrong.

Nor am I saying it's wrong that some like the PT, for what ever varying reasons. However, I can see that there is a clear difference to most between the two sagas. And to me what little evidence we can pull, I'd say ya I feel I have more of a strong point. And to me Red Letter Media really put an exclamation on it with very good strong strong points.

But I do find it interesting. Did you join these forums just for this discussion alone?.... We have lots more out there lots of fun in these boards.

And again would I say ROTS and ROTJ are someone in the same regards....slightly. The reviews for ROTJ are somewhat lower on some critic sites, because mainly they don't have as many as reviews. But again looking at the mass amount of fans it speaks again. Each user reviews on RT has about 1,000,000 reviews. And the PT averages around 63% where as the OT Around 93% out of millions of user reviews. I'd say there is a difference. Are these the best measuring stick? Maybe, but they are the best we have.

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Last edited by Solidus; 02-07-2013 at 05:49 PM.
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