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Old 12-20-2011, 04:51 PM   #87
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Default Re: What was Mark Waid's issues with the 1986 retelling?

Originally Posted by Evil Twin View Post
"Batman did outsell Superman in the '60s from 1966 to 1967."

Batman magazine outsold Superman magazine from 1966 to 1967. Even during that run, Superman related titles vastly outsold Batman related titles when taken in their entirety. Superman held more market share than Batman, before, during, and after Batmania.
The Batman title outsold the Superman title in 1966 and 1967 during Batmania. That is simply stating a fact. You are trying to downplay Batman's success during Batmania by combining the sales of Superman related titles like the Lois Lane titles sales and the Jimmy Olsen titles sales as though they were the flag ship Superman title.

I really don't know what point you're trying to make here.
I thought my point was obvious, but you keep missing it. My point was simply that I believe Superman had more success in the '50s, while Batman definitely had more success in the '60s than Batman had in the '50s.

Silver Age Superman which dominated the '50s and '60s, despite blips here and there, was vastly successful in terms of comic book sales. I think it's a fair question asking why exactly that needs to be run away from?

Certainly, I don't think even Byrne ran away from it entirely. Even in retrospect, Byrne acknowledges the damage of removing Superboy, which preceeds the Silver Age btw, from the LoSH. And, really, if we're going to take shots at Kingpin Luthor, by most accounts Marv Wolfman is where we should be pointing fingers, Byrne just ran with the idea. Certainly, Brainiac is a Silver Age villain nobody has a problem with retaining.

I certainly agree that updating Lois Lane's characterization from the Silver Age schemer was something that can't translate to modern storytelling. That said, All Star Superman is certainly an example of how the Silver Age tropes can translate to modern storytelling. I think the main thing is just not to make Superman mopey and ineffective, but someone able to meet big challenges with a sense of hope and even a sense of humor.
As I acknowledged before on the previous page of this thread, Byrne's influences included some Silver Age Superman comics (Ed Hamilton and Wayne Boring's heavyset business suited con-man Luthor, Bill Finger's Lana Lang, Lori Lemaris, Otto Binder's Lucy Lane, Bizarro, etc.).

Half-man, half-bat.
Originally Posted by DaRkVeNgeanCe View Post
Manbat I adore you, those articles were amazing thanks!!!
Originally Posted by Octoberist View Post
Honesty, God bless you Man-Bat.
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Wow, brilliant post, man. Seriously, I couldn't possibly counter debate that. That post is a thing of beauty and a joy forever. You're obviously a true scholar of Batman lore
You've convinced me. Well played, sir. It's great to debate with someone who has the hard facts to back up what they say
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