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Old 08-01-2013, 04:33 PM   #124
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 300
Default Re: Zach Snyder plans to speak with Frank Miller for MoS Sequel

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
Perhaps definitive is the wrong word. But it's certainly iconic.

It's important to remember that there are plenty of comic book readers who are fans of both Batman and Superman and are informed about both, who enjoy The Dark Knight Returns.

It's not a definitive portrayal of Superman at all. It's a warped bizarro "what if?" interpretation of him. But it is the most famous and iconic encounter between the two characters in their 75 year history. It's just the way it is.

Plenty of Batman fans hate DKReturns too. It's a controversial book. But nobody can argue that it's an influential and iconic work. Many comic writers of today had their minds blown reading that for the first time in '86, and may not have gotten into comics if not for that experience. It was the "gateway drug" for a lot of people.
Well, to that...I'd say a few things.

How do I say this without it coming off really mean? LOL There are plenty of people in this world who are "fans" of certain things without actually having any real understanding about them.

I'm sure there are people who are comic book readers who "like" Superman who like Dark Knight Returns. But then, unfortunately, I have to question what kind of fans they are and what kind of understanding they have of the character. There are plenty of people out there who "like" Superman but believe some totally untrue and ridiculous things about him. Not all "fans" have the same level of intelligence, understanding and ability to process the problems with a problematic text. So the fact that some people are ok with it doesn't really hold muster for me. Superman is a ridiculously misunderstood figure and even plenty of people who "like" him don't always get him.

Second,'s a messed up, AU of Superman. The trouble is....almost every single AU that features Batman and Superman features a warped bizarro "what if" of Superman. This is a consistent problem with this character.

The most recent example is Injustice Gods Among Us. That features a warped "what if" for Superman. The problem's become a rather huge trend for the "what if" for Superman to paint him horrifically. There are alot of reasons for this and none of them speak highly about the way WB manages Superman and the way DC Comics treats the character.

There are so many avenues with a "what if" story and, at some point, it does become offensive that the " go to" in a "what if" with Superman tends to lead down such a lazy, character assasination riddled path. Just as it's become really, really lazy (and blisteringly insulting) that the "what if" for Lois Lane seems to ALWAYS be to murder her in some grisly, horrible way. At some point, there actually is a problem with the "what if" here bc these characters are repeatedly thrown under the bus. (Which specifically, Frank Miller killed Lois off in Dark Knight Returns, in part, bc he wanted to paint Superman poorly and felt he couldn't do it with Lois around. It was lazy.)

As for the "gateway" comic for people....that may have been true in 1986. I was only 4 years old in 1986. So the people to which it was a "gateway comic" are much older than me now and I'm already 30 years old. So we are talking here about a group of fans who are a bit older and I would, guess, are almost exclusively male.

Now, personally, my "gateway" into comics was Death of Superman in the early 90's. And I would venture that "Death of Superman" is actually the "gateway" for a lot of modern Superman fans.

So I guess my question is...if we are talking about "gateway comics" for a Superman movie....why aren't we talking about Death and Return of Superman? Because, THAT was really more of the "gateway" comic for the current generation of readers and it was a book that was actually FOCUSED on Superman and about Superman. Batman was also in THAT story.

(I'm honestly not trying to argue here. I think you've made some great points and you're very thoughful. I'm just raising some other questions.)

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